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Gatwick drop-off PCN - they insist on validity of NTK which came late?

Hello forum

received a Gatwick drop-off PCN "to keeper" which was issued by NCP way after the 14 days (exactly around 40 days after the "incident") by their own admission (on the PCNTK letter details)

because of that, already appealed using the standard format found on newbies section to say "no assumptions on driver identity can be made"  and also saying that they issued the notice to keeper way after the 14 days rule from POFA etc etc..

but anyway they don't even mention POFA, and being a drive-through there is no windshield ticket, just the NTK based on ANPR so I assume this NTK is invalid?

anywho they replied by email to my appeal as follows:

Re: Parking Charge Notice Number XXXX (Vehicle: XXXX)
Site: Gatwick Airport North Terminal Drop Off
Issue date: XXXX
Thank you for your appeal received on XXXX regarding the above detailed Parking Charge Notice, we have reviewed
your case and considered the comments you have made. Your appeal has also been considered in conjunction with the
evidence gathered at the time of the contravention. Our records show the notice was correctly issued as your vehicle was in
breach of the displayed Terms and Conditions.
We are therefore unable to cancel the Parking Charge Notice as it was issued correctly. We have now extended the
discounted payment period by a further 14 days to allow you time to pay the discounted settlement amount. Please now make
payment of £15 to reach us by XXXX or £100 to reach us by XXXX. We must advise you that once the discounted
settlement rate passes it will not be offered again.
Payment can also be made using a debit or credit card on our website; OR you can also pay
using our Automated Payment Line: 03330230907
You have reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. NCP will not assess further appeals in relation to this matter.
However, in line with our Accredited Trade Association (ATA) membership we are required to provide you with an Independent
Appeals Service. If you wish to appeal your case further you can now only do so to Parking On Private Land Appeals (POPLA)
provided by Ombudsman Services on instruction of the British Parking Association.
All information on how to appeal to POPLA is provided on their website; you will need the following 10-digit
verification code to submit your appeal; XXXX
Please note that should you wish to appeal to POPLA you must do so within 28 days from the date of this letter. Please be
advised that once an appeal is submitted to POPLA, you lose the right to pay at the reduced amount. If POPLA reject your
appeal you will be liable for the full amount of this PCN. You must therefore chose to appeal OR pay and the discounted
amount will not be reinstated under any circumstances. POPLA will also not asses a case that has been paid prior to the
appeal being received by them.
By law we are also required to inform you, Ombudsman Services () provides an alternative
dispute resolution service (ADR) that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, NCP have chosen not to
participate in their ADR service and as such should you wish to appeal further you must do so to POPLA as detailed above.

what should I do, just ignore as the NTK is invalid or appeal to POPLA?

thank you in advance for any help!

Comments

  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 57,993
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
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    edited 10 January at 8:43PM
    You should complain to the landowner and your MP without revealing the driver's identity.

    If that fails, then appeal to PoPLA using all the standard points available to you, making Not relevant land/non PoFA compliant NTK, keeper not liable your first point.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
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  • yetneveragain
    yetneveragain Posts: 23
    First Post Name Dropper
    Forumite
    ingirum said:
    Hello forum

    received a Gatwick drop-off PCN "to keeper" which was issued by NCP way after the 14 days (exactly around 40 days after the "incident") by their own admission (on the PCNTK letter details)

    because of that, already appealed using the standard format found on newbies section to say "no assumptions on driver identity can be made"  and also saying that they issued the notice to keeper way after the 14 days rule from POFA etc etc..

    but anyway they don't even mention POFA, and being a drive-through there is no windshield ticket, just the NTK based on ANPR so I assume this NTK is invalid?
    It's not that the NtK is invalid as such. It is just that they are not relying on PoFA and so cannot hold the RK liable, only the driver, whose identity they do not know unless it is blabbed by the RK.

    As they are not relying on PoFA, it is irrelevant whether they sent the NtK later than 14 days. Tey know they canot rely on PoFA because the land is not relevant land anyway.

    Your POPLA appeal should see this quashed. Let them waste their money on POPLA. Just use the usual POPLA appeal stuff with as many points as possible. However, your primary POPLA point must be the fact that as they are not relying on PoFA, they cannot transfer liability from the driver to the keeper and no assumptions can be drawn.

  • troublemaker22
    troublemaker22 Posts: 417
    First Post Name Dropper First Anniversary
    Forumite
    You shouldn’t have to go through all that MP and landowner palaver for a simple Gatwick drop off PCN. Just appeal to POPLA. The following should do:

    “I am appealing as keeper. I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so. 

    1. The operator is unable to transfer liability to me as keeper pursuant to Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) because the drop off zones at Gatwick are not ‘relevant land’ as defined in POFA. 

    2. Even if (which is not the case) the land in question is relevant land the operator’s notice was delivered after the expiry of the ‘relevant period’ as defined in POFA paragraph 9(5). 

    3 In addition the operator’s notice does not conform to the requirements set out in POFA paragraphs 9(2)(f). 

    Furthermore, as keeper I am entitled to all the defences available to the driver including (without limitation) the following:

    4. The parking charge is not notified until after the contract is entered into and under the principles set out by the Court of Appeal in Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking, does not form part of the contract between the driver and the operator;

    5 The signage is not compliant with the BPA Code of Practice. 

    Any one of the above reasons is alone sufficient to require cancellation of the PCN.”

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