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  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,314 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    edited 30 December 2023 at 9:43PM
    Give POPLA a go. Ignore them if you lose. 

    As per the NEWBIES thread 3rd post.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • troublemaker22
    troublemaker22 Posts: 456 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper
    edited 30 December 2023 at 9:52PM
    You should appeal both cases to POPLA, but don't hold your breath because POPLA assessors are not legally qualified and some of them are remarkably dim when it comes to understanding POFA.  But the beauty of a POPLA appeal is that if you win, the operator must cancel the tickets but if you lose, the result is not binding on you and the only way the operator can make you pay is to sue you in a civil court and win case.  If it gets to that stage, this forum is packed with advice on how to beat the scammers in court. 

    For starters, you should go through POFA with a fine tooth comb and look for any failures to comply https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4

    This should get you started:

    '1.      No keeper liability
    I appeal as keeper.  I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so. Even if (which is not the case) the driver is liable, the operator can only transfer the driver’s liability to the keeper by complying with the strict requirements set out in Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (‘POFA’). As recognised in the BPA Code of conduct, strict compliance with POFA is required. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient:

    "21.2 As long as the strict conditions of Schedule 4 are met, you may claim payment from the keeper or the hirer of the vehicle rather than from the driver. To do this you need to follow the procedures set out in the Schedule…"

     POFA paragraph 9.(2) (f) states that a notice to keeper "must ...:

    warn the keeper that if, at the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to keeper is given—

    (i) the amount of the unpaid parking charges … has not been paid in full, and

    (ii) the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

    the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid.

    The PCN does not  comply with POFA paragraph 9.(2) because it fails to state that the operator’s right to recover from the keeper is subject to all applicable conditions under POFA being met.

    [add in any other POFA fails you spot]

    2. No driver liability
    Furthermore, the keeper cannot be liable if the driver is not liable.  The driver is not liable for the following reasons:-

    [add all the reasons you can think of why the driver isn't liable finishing with the following]

    The operator has failed to demonstrate that its signage was adequate to give rise to a contract with the driver to pay the parking charge.  Nor has the operator proved that it owns the land in question or was authorised at the relevant time by the landowner to issue and enforce parking charges.  I reserve the right to expand on these points in light of any arguments or evidence put forward by the operator in response to this appeal.'

    The last points are important because operators often trip themselves up with their evidence in response to appeals; for example putting in stock copies of signs instead of photos of the actual signs on site or failing to produce a landowner contract that covers the relevant land on the relevant date or which does not show a signature by the landowner.  At that point POPLA doesn't allow appellants to raise new issues but I have found that the above wording is sufficient to enable me to go for the jugular on signage and authority if the operator's evidence isn't good enough on these points.
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