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Euro Car Parks - Am I Right In Adding Receipt Proof + POFA 2012 To Initial Appeal?

Hi all,

As title really.

I didn't receive the PCN until 14 days after the parking event (although I can't exactly prove this), but I've worded it into the blue draft appeal letter.

I've also worded and included the receipt for the store (TK MAXX - who unfortunately don't own the car park)

See bold for additions from myself.

Draft:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.  In addition, under the POFA 2012 (Protection of Freedoms Act) - For there to be 'keeper liability', the PCN should have arrived by day 14, of which it did not. 

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

In order to resolve the dispute I attach copies of a receipt from TKMAXX, showing proof of a genuine customer spending at a substantial amount.

Am I doing right? Many thanks.


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Comments

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,334
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    Yes but change the end bit, to make it clear the receipt is from an occupant of the car.

    Then go read POPLA DECISIONS and spot whether your NTK is missing the words needed for keeper liability.

    If still unsure, I started a thread of NTK pictures (which I will not link here, because it's easy to find and current) and it shows BOTH versions.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • P01N7
    P01N7 Posts: 7
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    Yes but change the end bit, to make it clear the receipt is from an occupant of the car.

    Then go read POPLA DECISIONS and spot whether your NTK is missing the words needed for keeper liability.

    If still unsure, I started a thread of NTK pictures (which I will not link here, because it's easy to find and current) and it shows BOTH versions.
    Thankyou,

    Ok so mine is a POFA Compliant NTK - Is this an issue?


    Side note, the accompanying images - the image of the car leaving is basically a black image and I can't physically see the car (or number plate) is this a defence?

    Many thanks.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,334
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    No. Look at the signs. Take photos. 

    Is the £100 in large bold?  Or buried in small print as seen in the earlier POPLA DECISIONS re ECP this year? 
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • P01N7
    P01N7 Posts: 7
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    Ok, I need to double check tomorrow, but I'm fairly sure the £100 fee on the sign is not in bold but is in slightly larger lettering along with other writing.

    It's a yellow and blue sign which I believe hasn't changed since this photo.


  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,334
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    edited 12 December 2023 at 5:53PM
    Very good.

    Now go find those older ECP decisions about signs - appears in POPLA Decisions more than once - and make your evidence fit!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • I think even if you include a receipt it won't help it will be used to prove you were on site!  Maybe I am too cynical !

    They rejected my appeal despite evidence I sent of signs incorrect etc so now i have had to proceed to popla
  • Le_Kirk
    Le_Kirk Posts: 21,938
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    I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.  In addition, under the POFA 2012 (Protection of Freedoms Act) - For for there to be 'keeper liability', the PCN should have arrived by day 14, of which it did not. 
    Two small grammatical changes for you.
  • JerryJ64
    JerryJ64 Posts: 114
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    The actual date you received your NtK is irrelevant. What matters is the date you are "deemed" to have received it which is two working days after the date of the NtK. That is just one point that may invalidate an NtK that uses PoFA wording.

    Another point that invalidates ECP being able to rely on PoFA is their failure to prominently give adequate notice of the specified sum payable. It should be noted that within PoFA it discusses the clarity that needs to be provided to make a motorist aware of the parking charge. Specifically, it requires that the driver is given “adequate notice” of the charge. POFA defines “adequate notice” as follows:
    2(2) The reference in the definition of “parking charge” to a sum in the nature of damages is to a sum of which adequate notice was given to drivers of vehicles.”

    “2(3) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (2) ‘adequate notice’ means notice given by:

    (a) the display of one or more notices in accordance with any applicable requirements prescribed in regulations under paragraph 12 for, or for purposes including, the purposes of sub-paragraph (2); or

    (b) where no such requirements apply, the display of one or more notices which:

    (i) specify the sum as the charge for unauthorised parking; and
    (ii) are adequate to bring the charge to the notice of drivers who park vehicles on the relevant land”.

    Even in circumstances where PoFA does not apply, this is a reasonable standard to use when making an independent assessment of the signage in place at the location. The small font used in the signs at this location fail to provide adequate notice of any charges.

  • P01N7
    P01N7 Posts: 7
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    Hi, so I have received an email from ECP refusing my appeal directly with them, so presumably the next step is now POPLA?

    Im unfortunate to not have the old wording on the Pofa 2012 so can’t claim that,

    so presumably go with the inadequate wording on the signage?
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,140
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    P01N7 said:
    Hi, so I have received an email from ECP refusing my appeal directly with them, so presumably the next step is now POPLA?

    Im unfortunate to not have the old wording on the Pofa 2012 so can’t claim that,

    so presumably go with the inadequate wording on the signage?
    Go to the POPLA Decisions Announcement - start with decisions made from about 12 months ago, and look a the ECP cases that POPLA found in favour of the motorist, based on the inadequately-sized warning of the £109 parking charge. Use info from there as the basis for your 'Signage' appeal point. 

    This is a standard checklist, as often posted by forum stalwart @Fruitcake.  Key points to include in any POPLA appeal:

    1) Non-PoFA compliant NTK/NTH (if appropriate)
    2) Not the driver/not the person who may be liable for the charge (if non-PoFA)
    3) Not the landowner/ No landowner contract
    4) No standing to issue charges in their own name
    5) Inadequate signage (as above)
    6) BPA CoP failures (if appropriate)
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

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