UPDATE what happens now, IMPORTANT.CCA replies.heres my offers. and here's their discount

stu12345_2
stu12345_2 Posts: 800
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edited 7 December 2023 at 1:13PM in Debt-free wannabe
got 2 replies today in post 

one is for a 10 year old RBS credit card being managed by moorcroft DCA . RBS sent ( not moorcroft)  a copy of my credit agreement and only  two months  recent statement.

 they don't  say  it is enforceable or not , just  they have satisfied my request under section 78(1)  CCA and would like payments.

they say my demand for a true copy can be satisfied via a copy agreement at the date the card agreement was made and a copy of current terms of the card agreement.

it shows my credit limit when opened.
they did add if I want a full history of statements ,on top of the 2 they sent,I  am to email them for the costs.

 they also say please pay via payments with their RBS agency management team???
but it's being dealt with moorcroft.what do they mean??

 second one is. a 10 year old Barclaycard credit card debt, sold and being dealt with PRA.

PRA enclose a  Barclaycard letter showing  a copy of my agreement ( short form cancellation, historic terms and conditions and varied terms and conditions),but no full historic  statements.

. Barclaycard   then state this is a reconstituted credit agreement ,but the interest rates ,fees, and charges in the agreement may differ from those  discussed with me, due to the current status of my account

they then show  my current balance and credit limit  and state this completes our obligation under section 78 of the act.
the agreement doesn't show my credit limit when opened.unlike the RBS one which did .


Barclaycard agreement states limit will be shown when I receive my card based on what info they get from credit agencies etc.


pra said the debt is currently unenforceable whilst they retrieve more documents.

what documents do they mean.
is it cos they sent no statements( except  current balance and credit limit)that makes the CCA request still unenforceable, or something else I mentioned above.
 help please.
pay your debt at your rate.not what the creditor demands.cos they have no power.they aren't the police.
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  • jlfrs01
    jlfrs01 Posts: 279
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    edited 5 December 2023 at 1:05PM
    It would be helpful to have some more information if possible. By "10 year old credit card and debt" do you mean both credit cards have outstanding balances of 10 years? Did you default on both cards? If so, was that 10 years ago and is this the first correspondence you've had since then?

    It is very likely these debts being more than 6 years old are covered under the Statute of Limitation Act 1980 so unenforceable which is probably what PRA were referring to in their letter. However, the 6 years rule applies from the date of the last payment made or acknowledgement of the debt.

    This article covers everything you need to know about the Act and how to deal with Debt Collectors but you need to know the facts first to ensure these debts are covered: https://moneynerd.co.uk/statute-limitations-uk-debt/#Can_I_be_Chased_for_Debt_After_10_Years
  • stu12345_2
    stu12345_2 Posts: 800
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    edited 5 December 2023 at 2:36PM
    both cards were opened 10 years ago both defaulted about 2O months ago . I was paying via stepchange for last 2 years, then went alone self managed 2 months ago. where I did my CCA letters. Barclaycard card sold to pra 20 months ago.RBS card managed by moorcroft DCA.about same time.

    I don't get it why PRA are saying it's unenforceable whilst they await more documents.what documents ? despite enclosing the Barclaycard reply stating they have satisfied my request.producng my CCA
    ( except for historic transactions in statements)
     and why did RBS only send 2 months of statements and want to bill me for more.

    please read carefully what I wrote in first post above and see if there are any mistakes by RBS ,pra ,moorcoft or Barclaycard  as these are the two largest debts I owe ,£9000 in total with these.
    pay your debt at your rate.not what the creditor demands.cos they have no power.they aren't the police.
  • jlfrs01
    jlfrs01 Posts: 279
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    I see you've edited the original post which now makes it clearer this isn't to do with agencies chasing 10 year old debts. Both the unenforced aspect of your query and the charge for information are explained in this article here:

    https://www.imperialcollegeunion.org/advice/non-academic-issues/debt/unenforceable-credit-agreements

    So, it may be PRA have requested additional information from Barclaycard to satisfy the request and in RBS's case, they could be exercising their right to charge for the production of copy statements as per the UCA article.
  • stu12345_2
    stu12345_2 Posts: 800
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    edited 5 December 2023 at 2:54PM
    so what is missing that PRA wants and why is RBS say pay them and not moorcroft and why has RBS not stated enforceable or unenforceable.

    have a look at what I wrote,is there anything there that the creditors have slipped up on.

    these are the 2 debts I wanted to be unenforceable ,due to their size..these are my oldest debts too.
    pay your debt at your rate.not what the creditor demands.cos they have no power.they aren't the police.
  • jlfrs01
    jlfrs01 Posts: 279
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    so what is missing that PRA wants and why is RBS say pay them and not moorcroft and why has RBS not stated enforceable or unenforceable.

    have a look at what I wrote,is there anything there that the creditors have slipped up on.

    these are the 2 debts I wanted to be unenforceable ,due to their size..these are my oldest debts too.
    OK - "unenforceable" doesn't mean there's a way for these debts not to be settled. You have requested information and both companies have 12 days to provide it, if not the debts are unenforceable until it is forthcoming.

    I've cut and pasted from the article I provided in my last post as to what this actually means:

    • Cannot - make the debtor pay the debt before they're supposed to, get a court judgment against the debtor, and take back anything hired or bought on credit, or take anything used as security in the agreement
    • Can - ask debtors to pay what they owe, send a default notice, pass information on to a credit reference agency, pass information on to a debt collector, sell the debt to someone else, and take the case to court
    I don't know why RBS have asked you liaise with them and not Moorcroft (possibly because they'll be providing the statements and charging the fee to produce it so just cutting out the middleman), and similarly I can't say why Barclaycard haven't mentioned either term.

  • stu12345_2
    stu12345_2 Posts: 800
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    edited 5 December 2023 at 3:43PM
    the cca letters were posted 5 weeks ago. to moorcroft and pra who both replied that they would respond . and moorcroft would request it from RBS.
    pay your debt at your rate.not what the creditor demands.cos they have no power.they aren't the police.
  • jlfrs01
    jlfrs01 Posts: 279
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    the cca letters were posted 5 weeks ago.
    So let's see if we can summarize. RBS/Moorcroft DCA have provided the information requested and state they've met their obligations but if you want more than the 2 statements provided, they'll generate them at your cost. If not then they expect payments to be forthcoming.

    PRA have written to you with some information but not any statements. Your original post mentioned the debt is unenforceable whilst they retrieve more documents and you asked what this meant. I think they are referring to the statements and until they get them, (if they are what you've asked for), the debt is unenforceable. 5 weeks does seem quite a long time but the ball is in their Court and in their best interests so I can only imagine it's big company bureacracy to be the reason as to why you've not got anything yet.
  • stu12345_2
    stu12345_2 Posts: 800
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    edited 5 December 2023 at 5:36PM
    surely just producing the cca is enough or do they legally have to produce statements to.
    it seems they have to produce every I ask for 
    your summary is correct,except RBS never said the phrase enforceable,they just state they have satisfied my request.
    pay your debt at your rate.not what the creditor demands.cos they have no power.they aren't the police.
  • sourcrates
    sourcrates Posts: 28,542
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    From what you have said it looks as though they have complied with your requests.

    Statements have no bearing on account enforceability, no point looking for slight discrepancies, your accounts are likely enforceable, its not on the whole difficult to provide a name/address/account number and balance, the T`s & C`s are supposed to be those in force at time of signing, not current terms, but that would be a flimsy argument to put before a court.
    I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the Debt free wannabe, Credit file and ratings, and Bankruptcy and living with it boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing [email protected]. All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.For free non-judgemental debt advice, contact either Stepchange, National Debtline, or CitizensAdviceBureaux.Link to SOA Calculator- https://www.stoozing.com/soa.php The "provit letter" is here-https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2607247/letter-when-you-know-nothing-about-about-the-debt-aka-prove-it-letter
  • stu12345_2
    stu12345_2 Posts: 800
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    edited 5 December 2023 at 8:09PM
    From what you have said it looks as though they have complied with your requests.

    Statements have no bearing on account enforceability, no point looking for slight discrepancies, your accounts are likely enforceable, its not on the whole difficult to provide a name/address/account number and balance, the T`s & C`s are supposed to be those in force at time of signing, not current terms, but that would be a flimsy argument to put before a court.
    any idea what PRA are waiting for. so it's now for me to decide when and how much to pay RBS, as I'm trying to build as much emergency fund as possible .

    my last payment was a low payment on  October 1st, via stepchange before I went to self manage.

    when I did my CCA requests, I stated in my letter, state enforceable or unenforceable. but RBS never did.
    pay your debt at your rate.not what the creditor demands.cos they have no power.they aren't the police.
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