CCA Request with Merged Debts

juliang

Hi all,

I’ve sent CCA requests to all my creditors in April. They’ve all been sold to debt management companies.  

One for Barclays credit card came back and said they don’t have the agreement so the debt is considered unenforceable. 

One for a Virgin credit card acknowledged receipt of my letter, but hasn’t replied any further since then. So for now, I’m considering that one as unenforceable until/unless they find the documents. 

A third is for some debts with NatWest; I had a personal (unsecured) loan, as well as an overdraft. They’ve sold both the loan and the overdraft to Wescot who have put them together into one “account”. I asked for the CCA for the loan, but they haven’t responded, so I’m considering stopping payments to them as it’s “unenforceable” - however, the overdraft is still on there (which, from my understanding, doesn’t have the same criteria of being required to provide a CCA). The loan was about £8000, the overdraft £1500 - so a total of £9500. I’ve been paying both down monthly and now the balance is about £6000.

The overdraft probably is enforceable, but looks like the loan isn’t. Ideally, I’d want to stop paying the unenforceable loan debt but keep paying the enforceable overdraft. But if I keep sending them money they’re just applying it to the overall debt.

Is it possible for me to say I only want the money to go towards the enforceable balance (overdraft balance) and not the unenforceable (loan)? Any advice on how to proceed with this one?

Brie

I wouldn't take 3 months of no response as considering the Virgin CC is unenforceable.  I had a response about a card after 9 months.  

As for NatWest....I would ask Wescot to give separate balances  - they may have applied payments made on a pro rata basis up until now.  Maybe a forceful statement of your belief that the £8k isn't enforceable and that all money paid in the future applies to the overdraft only will get a reaction from them.

sourcrates

The merging of debts occurs occasionally, a bank loan and an overdraft, for example, bungled together into one balance, then chased as just the one debt.

The good news for you, is that such accounts are deemed to be irredeemably unenforceable, as there is no paperwork, and certainly no agreement, pertaining to that balance.

By merging two separate debts, and creating a third, they create an account that never existed in your name previously, its neither a loan, nor an overdraft now.

They cannot merge balances into one debt without a new agreement, and that not only takes your permission, but a new agreement document with all the prescribed terms, and your signature.

As none exists, no debt exists and that is what you can say in your letter telling them goodbye.

Ask for the CCA, there won`t be one.

juliang

sourcrates said:

The merging of debts occurs occasionally, a bank loan and an overdraft, for example, bungled together into one balance, then chased as just the one debt.

The good news for you, is that such accounts are deemed to be irredeemably unenforceable, as there is no paperwork, and certainly no agreement, pertaining to that balance.

By merging two separate debts, and creating a third, they create an account that never existed in your name previously, its neither a loan, nor an overdraft now.

They cannot merge balances into one debt without a new agreement, and that not only takes your permission, but a new agreement document with all the prescribed terms, and your signature.

As none exists, no debt exists and that is what you can say in your letter telling them goodbye.

Ask for the CCA, there won`t be one.

Thanks for your speedy reply, really well explained which is much appreciated. 

I don’t want to get over excited here but…

If the NatWest isn’t enforceable… and Virgin can’t provide the CCA (which I appreciate they might still do).

Then I’ve suddenly found myself in a position where I don’t have any enforceable debts at all. 

I’m currently paying into a DMP (just for Virgin and NatWest - I took the Barclays one off).

It feels like the right move for me is to just end the DMP, send the debt companies a letter saying I’m not paying any more unless they can provide the documents, and stick the £250 a month into a savings account in case anything comes back from it later…?

juliang

Brie said:

I wouldn't take 3 months of no response as considering the Virgin CC is unenforceable.  I had a response about a card after 9 months.  

As for NatWest....I would ask Wescot to give separate balances  - they may have applied payments made on a pro rata basis up until now.  Maybe a forceful statement of your belief that the £8k isn't enforceable and that all money paid in the future applies to the overdraft only will get a reaction from them.

Thanks for your quick reply. I’m aware the Virgin account might come back at some point with the paperwork so trying not to count my chickens too much - as I said in the opening post, I’m only considering it unenforceable until/unless they find the documents. 

sourcrates

juliang said:

sourcrates said:

The merging of debts occurs occasionally, a bank loan and an overdraft, for example, bungled together into one balance, then chased as just the one debt.

The good news for you, is that such accounts are deemed to be irredeemably unenforceable, as there is no paperwork, and certainly no agreement, pertaining to that balance.

By merging two separate debts, and creating a third, they create an account that never existed in your name previously, its neither a loan, nor an overdraft now.

They cannot merge balances into one debt without a new agreement, and that not only takes your permission, but a new agreement document with all the prescribed terms, and your signature.

As none exists, no debt exists and that is what you can say in your letter telling them goodbye.

Ask for the CCA, there won`t be one.

Thanks for your speedy reply, really well explained which is much appreciated. 

I don’t want to get over excited here but…

If the NatWest isn’t enforceable… and Virgin can’t provide the CCA (which I appreciate they might still do).

Then I’ve suddenly found myself in a position where I don’t have any enforceable debts at all. 

I’m currently paying into a DMP (just for Virgin and NatWest - I took the Barclays one off).

It feels like the right move for me is to just end the DMP, send the debt companies a letter saying I’m not paying any more unless they can provide the documents, and stick the £250 a month into a savings account in case anything comes back from it later…?

That`s a good strategy, yes.

Karonher

sourcrates said:

They cannot merge balances into one debt without a new agreement, and that not only takes your permission, but a new agreement document with all the prescribed terms, and your signature.

As none exists, no debt exists and that is what you can say in your letter telling them goodbye.

Ask for the CCA, there won`t be one.

Wont they just turn it back into two debts again and keep chasing if they have paperwork?

sourcrates

Karonher said:

sourcrates said:

They cannot merge balances into one debt without a new agreement, and that not only takes your permission, but a new agreement document with all the prescribed terms, and your signature.

As none exists, no debt exists and that is what you can say in your letter telling them goodbye.

Ask for the CCA, there won`t be one.

Wont they just turn it back into two debts again and keep chasing if they have paperwork?

No, the debt stays in the format in which it was sold, it would have been the original creditor who merged the debts, not the company buying it.

Wescott will likely be unaware of the debts original status, which is why you have to challenge them for evidence, so the truth comes out.

Debt collectors/purchasers all tend to work on a numbers basis, they buy debts in bulk, and chase them down, most of the time without any knowledge of a debts history or enforceability.