Worth appealing this airport charge notice?

B789

Keep any documentation they sent you where they are saying you must provide proof and respond to them, highlighting this document, https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/debt-pap.pdf, para 4.3 in particular, and tell them that you will be pointing out their unreasonable behaviour to the judge should they decide to proceed with their claim.

KeithP

Quote them paragraph 4.2 from The Pre-action Protocol for Debt Claims. published by His Majesty's Courts and Tribunals Service.

That states...

Note the word must in there.

Seems quite clear to me that they must give you an extra thirty days simply because you have asked for it.

Alternatively, you could send them a link to this MSE forum thread. That couldn't be clearer proof that you are seeking debt advice, could it?   

Fruitcake

At this stage, do not identify the driver. The Keeper must be the one dealing with this. You can help but it must all be done in the name of the keeper. This is because the airport is not relevant land as determined by the PoFA 2012, and therefore the keeper cannot be held liable. That won't stop VCS, but it should be used as a weapon at every stage in the hope they eventually put it on the too difficult pile.

Plan A is always a complain to the landowner and the keeper's MP. The airport is owned by a foreign investment company, details of which are given on the official airport webpage. Don't expect a reply, but you need to go through the motions. I complained to the London and Toronto offices but never heard a thing.
Complain to the landowner's sub-contractor, Bristol Airport Limited. Don't expect them to be on your side.

Meanwhile, respond robustly to the LBC telling then you deny the debt but are seeking debt advice therefore require the charge to be put on hold for 30 days as per court pre-action protocol. This will give you more time to rebut everything. 

Using information below, send the 30 hold instruction plus a rebuttal of the charges base on the following headings.

Not the landowner
No standing to issue charges in their own name
No contract with or flowing from the landowner
Not relevant land, airport byelaws apply, keeper was not the driver and therefore cannot be held liable. The PoFA defines.
Driver cannot be held liable for the actions of an adult passenger
Stopping is not parking, Jopson v Homeguard applies
Stopping at a zebra crossing is a mandatory Road Traffic Act and Bristol Airport Byelaws requirement.
Failing to stop at a zebra crossing is a breach of the Road Traffic act and Bristol airport byelaws requirements
Stopping for a valid reason is not a Bristol Airport Byelaws breach



This is my dashcam video of the airport from the main entrance off the A38 to the drop off car park near the hotel. Assuming the alleged event took place on this road, please tell us the precise time from this video where the alleged event occurred which will then determine the location.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vTEKb02HDs


Have a look at the following threads that should help: -


Stopping at a zebra crossing. Sadly no update from the OP, but my post about VCS breaching the airport byelaws is applicable to your case.

Charge Notice- picking up while stopping for pedestrians at Bristol Airport — MoneySavingExpert Forum

Stopping at a zebra crossing, still at the initial appeal stage.

Yet another VCS stopping charge and Bristol Airport — MoneySavingExpert Forum

Stopping at a Stop sign. This one was cancelled before it got to court.

Fine for stopping - Bristol Airport — MoneySavingExpert Forum

Stopping at a zebra crossing. The OP won and the judge declared a data breach because VCS should never have requested keeper data for stopping at a zebra crossing. The result is around page 13.

Bristol Airport VCS - Stopping to Drop Off Charge Notice - Pedestrian Crossing — MoneySavingExpert Forum

That should keep you going for a while.

Coupon-mad

You can seek debt advice from my granny if you like (not that she could help because she's been dead 25 years)! 

But the point is they cannot dictate who you are seeking debt advice from.  Nor can they demand 'proof'.  As stated above, WE are assisting you for a start. By all means say you have started by consulting websites but need more time.

And you are entitled to take 30 days to 'seek' debt advice (SEEK being the operative word).  Could involve online assistance and general Googling, talking to a debt helpline or whatever.  You are legally allowed an un-harassed month to do that.

Do as advised above and tell them they are currently breaching a mandatory part of the PAP, and to put the damn scam 'on hold' or you'll complain to your MP and the Information Commissioner.

Boat_to_Bolivia

Coupon-mad said:

You can seek debt advice from my granny if you like (not that she could help because she's been dead 25 years)! 

But the point is they cannot dictate who you are seeking debt advice from.  Nor can they demand 'proof'.

Do as advised above and tell them they are currently breaching a mandatory part if the PAP, and to put the damn!thing on hold or you'll complain to your MP and the Information Commissioner.

I'd love to see the reaction to that email...

Dear Sirs,

I am currently seeking debt advice from beyond the grave so give me my extra 30 days, or else she'll be back to haunt you!

Yours faithfully.....

Coupon-mad

LOL, my nan was a force to be reckoned with, I can tell you!  A feisty woman (wonder where I get it from). Can just imagine her haunting scammers!

hboogz

Fruitcake said:

At this stage, do not identify the driver. The Keeper must be the one dealing with this. You can help but it must all be done in the name of the keeper. This is because the airport is not relevant land as determined by the PoFA 2012, and therefore the keeper cannot be held liable. That won't stop VCS, but it should be used as a weapon at every stage in the hope they eventually put it on the too difficult pile.




This is my dashcam video of the airport from the main entrance off the A38 to the drop off car park near the hotel. Assuming the alleged event took place on this road, please tell us the precise time from this video where the alleged event occurred which will then determine the location.

Thanks for the advice. I've made the mistake of putting it in my name, will this be detrimental to the case? Stupid of me, I was torn between putting the family member's name and email and ended up using my details. Haven't outrightly admitted who the driver was but the SAR and email was done in my name.

For the dashcam, it was one of the two between 1:00 and 1:15, I believe it was the latter.

Fruitcake

That was silly. It always gets messy when someone tries to "help" without doing proper research first.

If you have responded to a LBC that was sent to someone else (the keeper), then VCS will reasonably be able to claim on the balance of probabilities that you were driving, if you supplied your name and address. Did you?

VCS will then have the option of proceeding with a court claim against the keeper, or issue a NTD to you and start the process all over again. They may even decide to issue a LBC to you followed by a court claim, although they shouldn't.

If the keeper isn't up for the fight then they could name the driver, but a keeper who wasn't the driver defence on non-relevant land where byelaws apply stands a better chance of success in court.


As for the location, it is within the area that VCS are contracted to operate, so that's a defence point that can't be used, but it doesn't matter. All the other points are relevant.

Coupon-mad

Just means you defend as the admitted driver, using the Template Defence and concentrating on the fact this was a case of stopping at a zebra crossing to allow pedestrians to cross.

Ludicrous PCN, part of an "outrageous scam".

You've complained to the Airport?

You've read the thread tonight where an Airport stepped in and cancelled a rogue VCS PCN at an Airport even AFTER a court claim had been filed and served? No link. Go look!

Fruitcake

Coupon-mad said:

Just means you defend as the admitted driver, using the Template Defence and concentrating on the fact this was a case of stopping at a zebra crossing to allow pedestrians to cross.

Ludicrous PCN, part of an "outrageous scam".

You've complained to the Airport?

You've read the thread tonight where an Airport stepped in and cancelled a rogue VCS PCN at an Airport even AFTER a court claim had been filed and served? No link. Go look!

Since this is still at LBC stage, revealing the driver's identity "should" result in the clock being reset and an NTD being sent to the driver. They "shouldn't" send a LBC/LOC to the driver, let alone a court claim.
It will be interesting to see what VCS do in this instance, but in my opinion the keeper should ignore what the driver has done and respond robustly with the points I made earlier.