Letter of Claim from BWLegal - April 2023

Alixman984

Hi All,

I'm looking for some advice regarding the letter of claim I have received from BWlegal. I read the newbie post (thank you for that!) and I am no longer going to respond to their reply form which asks for my financial details, and whether or not I accept the fact that I owe the money. 

Long story short, I own a flat with an underground car park in South West London which is being managed with Parking and Property Management Ltd. We have experienced continued difficulties with the car park shutter, and night in question (Nov 2022), as I got back from work very late in the evening and the shutter was stuck mid-way so I had to park (like many other neighbors) outside in our visitor area. Can't remember what happened, but I assume, I just fall asleep and didn't move the car in when the shutter was fixed and woke in the morning with a ticket from PPM Ltd. Since then I have pretty much ignored all communication from PPM and BWLegal, hoping my building management company can get the ticket cancelled, but they have proved to be utter useless. I'm trying to talk to our new building manager to see if he has any luck.

Now my questions:

1- Per newbie thread, Should I just ignore the Letter of Claim reply form and issue a SAR for information to PPM?

2- Is there anything else I should prepare for if this case end up in court.

3- The original parking ticket was for £100, increased to £160.00 now. Just trying to understand what is the possible worst case scenario? I will fight this case tooth and nail, but just want to get the whole picture.

anything else I should know to prepare for this is greatly appreciated.

BR.

Ali

Fruitcake

Plan A is always a complaint to the landowner and your MP, and MA where applicable.
Get witness statements/repair requests etcetera about the dodgy door to show it is a regular occurrence. Repair orders for the date in question will be particularly helpful to show any alleged parking contract was void for impossibility.
Ask for security footage of the stuck door on this or any other occasion.

Tell the landowner/MA they are jointly responsible for the actions of their agents, the PPC, including a PCN being issued for their failure to maintain proper operation of the door.

Do you have a dashcam that would show the door being stuck on the day?

If you want a reply to the SAR (which may or may not help your case) to arrive before a court claim arrives, then you should respond to the LBC with a 30 day - seeking debt instruction.

Otherwise, ignoring it will do no harm, but personally I would reply if it were me simply to add "buggrance factor" and make the PPC/solicitor work for their money.

Do you have a copy of your lease/AST etcetera that will give you primacy of contract over anything an unregulated private parking company has to say.
See what it says about parking, PCNs, PPCs, paying PCNs/PPCs, and court claims. What it doesn't say is equally important.

See also what it says to your right to quiet enjoyment, and keeping the security door maintained, as well as crime prevention because anyone could have got in with the door partially up.

Alixman984

Thanks Fruitcake, should I send a letter to BWlegal or use the reply form? If it's a letter is there a good sample I could use?

Regarding the lease, I do have a copy of my lease but it doesn't mention anything about visitor parking area outside of the property, just about my underground car park, it absolutely doesn't mention any PCNs, PPCs etc... in fact, the land owner selected the PPM ltd only about couple of weeks before we moved in!

I will get a witness statement about continued difficulties we had with the shutter from our neighbors but managing company has been useless (mainly due to the fact that we have gone down the route of right to manage and in couple of month, they will no longer manage our buildings!!)

Cheers

Coupon-mad

If you lost in court, it would cost you about £200 all told. Less than the claim, which will be for about £260.  No CCJ risked because if you lost you'd pay, which leaves no trace on your credit record, no CCJ.

But 99% here win, so a loss is highly unlikely.

For now, as you say to us that you don't have a claim yet and only a LBC, you just email BW Legal.  No posting anything.  Don't just tell them that you are seeking a SAR from PPM.  Tell them that you own your flat and will robustly defend the claim, and summarise what happened.

Tell them you are aware that the added £60 is extortion, according to the Government.

Do not write especially politely.

Do not write it like an appeal, and don't expect them to back down.

Use 'Dear Sirs' and 'yours faithfully'

 

Fruitcake

To give yourself the maximum amount of time for Plan A to work, send an instruction to DCBL around day 25 from the LBC issue date stating that whilst you deny the debt, you are seeking debt advice and require proceedings to be put on hold for 30 days in accordance with court procedure rules.

For the SAR, send this to the DPO of P4P and include non-photo proof of ID.

Then, robustly complain about the PCN to the landowner and MA. Point them in the direction of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, Part 4 section 37. This requires a ballot of all landlords and tenants to be held before a change in your lease can be approved.
Ask when this ballot occurred, and what was the result. Point out that no ballot or no result in favour of changes means unilaterally changing your lease to bring in an unregulated parking company is unlawful.

Get other residents/victims involved. Form a fightback group using social media, residents meetings, do a leaflet drop through doors or on windscreens.
Get the PPC kicked out. 

B789

Perhaps something along these lines to the MA:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I recently contacted you about the parking charge notice (PCN) that I received from Parking and Property Management Ltd (PPML), a private parking company (PPC) that you have contracted. As you were made aware, I was unable to get to my designated parking space due to the shutters of the underground parking being stuck in an intermediate position and having to park in a visitor space. This was a matter that was beyond my control.

I would like to remind you that you are jointly liable for the actions of PPML as the contracting agent. My lease makes no mention of any third-party PPC having any right to issue me with charges for parking at my own property. If you wish to contend otherwise, I direct your attention to the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, Section 37 5(a) and 5 (b) specifically. I am not aware of any change to my lease and unless you can show otherwise as per the reference I have provided to the Act, I therefore suggest that you contact PPML and have them cancel the PCN.

I would also like to point out that, as PPML has no authorisation to fetter any terms in my lease as they are not a party to it, any attempt by them to harass me with claims that I owe them a debt for a breach of the terms of any contract will be defended robustly. As you are jointly liable for their actions, you may wish to inform your legal advisors about this matter.

I was disappointed with your attempt to fob me off by telling me that you cannot deal with the PCN and that I should approach PPML directly. I would like to remind you of your liability and urge you to take this matter seriously.

It is important that you understand the nature of your relationship with PPML and that you are able to differentiate between who is the Organ Grinder and who is the Monkey in your business relationship. As such, I remind you to take responsibility for the actions of PPML and ensure that they cancel the PCN.

I anticipate hearing back from you soon with confirmation that PPML has cancelled the PCN and this matter need not progress to court action.

Yours faithfully,

[Name]

Fruitcake

Always use the word, "unregulated" when referring to a PPC or the private parking industry.

In addition to the excellent suggestions from B789, I would instruct the MA to have your vehicle VRMs to be added to an exemption/whitelist to ensure their agent does not unlawfully obtain and process your personal data again. To do so would be further breaches of the DPA 2015 and GDPR, and as their principle, both they and their agent will be liable to legal action if this charge is not cancelled, and if further charges are received.

Meanwhile, when do you plan to move out?

Alixman984

Coupon-mad said:

If you lost in court, it would cost you about £200 all told. Less than the claim, which will be for about £260.  No CCJ risked because if you lost you'd pay, which leaves no trace on your credit record, no CCJ.

But 99% here win, so a loss is highly unlikely.

For now, as you say to us that you don't have a claim yet and inly a LBC, you just email BW Legal.  No posting anything.  Don't just tell them that you are seeking a SAR from PPM.  Tell them that you own your flat and will robustly defend the claim, and summarise what happened.

Tell them you are aware that the added £60 is extortion, according to the Government.

Do not write especially politely.

Do not write it like an appeal, and don't expect them to back down.

Use 'Dear Sirs' and 'yours faithfully'

 

Fruitcake said:

To give yourself the maximum amount of time for Plan A to work, send an instruction to DCBL around day 25 from the LBC issue date stating that whilst you deny the debt, you are seeking debt advice and require proceedings to be put on hold for 30 days in accordance with court procedure rules.

For the SAR, send this to the DPO of P4P and include non-photo proof of ID.

Then, robustly complain about the PCN to the landowner and MA. Point them in the direction of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, Part 4 section 37. This requires a ballot of all landlords and tenants to be held before a change in your lease can be approved.
Ask when this ballot occurred, and what was the result. Point out that no ballot or no result in favour of changes means unilaterally changing your lease to bring in an unregulated parking company is unlawful.

Get other residents/victims involved. Form a fightback group using social media, residents meetings, do a leaflet drop through doors or on windscreens.
Get the PPC kicked out. 

Thank you all. I'm very grateful. To make sure I don't mess this up. I'm assuming I can send an email to BWlegal per Coupon-Mad's recommendation straightaway and send a follow up letter 25 days(ish) post LBC to BWlegal per Fruitcake suggestions to put proceedings on hold? Or just mix both instances and send an email 3rd week of May and do both together?

Thank you so much for any advice

Alixman984

B789 said:

Perhaps something along these lines to the MA:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I recently contacted you about the parking charge notice (PCN) that I received from Parking and Property Management Ltd (PPML), a private parking company (PPC) that you have contracted. As you were made aware, I was unable to get to my designated parking space due to the shutters of the underground parking being stuck in an intermediate position and having to park in a visitor space. This was a matter that was beyond my control.

I would like to remind you that you are jointly liable for the actions of PPML as the contracting agent. My lease makes no mention of any third-party PPC having any right to issue me with charges for parking at my own property. If you wish to contend otherwise, I direct your attention to the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, Section 37 5(a) and 5 (b) specifically. I am not aware of any change to my lease and unless you can show otherwise as per the reference I have provided to the Act, I therefore suggest that you contact PPML and have them cancel the PCN.

I would also like to point out that, as PPML has no authorisation to fetter any terms in my lease as they are not a party to it, any attempt by them to harass me with claims that I owe them a debt for a breach of the terms of any contract will be defended robustly. As you are jointly liable for their actions, you may wish to inform your legal advisors about this matter.

I was disappointed with your attempt to fob me off by telling me that you cannot deal with the PCN and that I should approach PPML directly. I would like to remind you of your liability and urge you to take this matter seriously.

It is important that you understand the nature of your relationship with PPML and that you are able to differentiate between who is the Organ Grinder and who is the Monkey in your business relationship. As such, I remind you to take responsibility for the actions of PPML and ensure that they cancel the PCN.

I anticipate hearing back from you soon with confirmation that PPML has cancelled the PCN and this matter need not progress to court action.

Yours faithfully,

[Name]

Thank you B789. I have used your fantastic letter and have approached our MA. Fingers crossed.

Coupon-mad

Only if you want it put on hold. Consider when you want the claim to arrive, June or August?  Only delay it if you want to.

B789

Alixman984 said:
To make sure I don't mess this up. I'm assuming I can send an email to BWlegal per Coupon-Mad's recommendation straightaway and send a follow up letter 25 days(ish) post LBC to BWlegal per Fruitcake suggestions to put proceedings on hold? Or just mix both instances and send an email 3rd week of May and do both together? 

You need to understand that once an LoC has been sent, they can issue a claim any time after 30 days. They are not obliged to issue a claim after 30 days and they are not obliged to issue a claim at all. However, after 30 days, they then have up to 6 years after the parking event to issue a claim without any further notice.

If you feel you need more time than the 30 days they have given you, then by all means, you can ask 30 days from your request for debt advice, which they are obliged to give you. If you are using it as a delaying tactic, for whatever reason, then you send your 30-day debt advice request as close as possible to the 30-day deadline of the original LoC.

Many victims just follow the advice without understanding it and will send off the 30-day debt advice request a few days after receiving the LoC and thus squander the amount of time they could have delayed a claim. The 30-day debt advice request, if needed for delaying purposes, only be sent as close as possible to the original LoC 30-day deadline.

I hope that clarifies things.