Urgent Help: Civil enforcement LTD county court claim for charge 5 years ago 29 December 2022 at 2:49PM in Parking tickets, fines & parking 28 replies 461 views

tony150

Hi all

I am a long time reader of the forum but only just created an account on the back of a county court claim from CEL.

The claim relates to a parking 'charge' going back to late 2017 and so they are within the 6 year window of claiming for 'breach of contract'.

My issue is that I have no recollection of this event and I have not received any letters from CEL or the parking operator prior to this. I did not receive a letter before action / letter before small claims court. The description on the 'charge' indicates that the vehicle registered to me entered the carpark at 00:00 and left at 23:59 the same day which to me suggests it was an ANPR camera that has picked the registration up. What feels weird or a glitch is that it runs the full 23 hours and 59 minutes suggesting I entered and left the carpark at those exact time which could be possible but highly unlikely. 

To complicate things further, the claim is dated 19th December but only received it on the 27th December most probably due to post strikes etc and need to send an AoS pronto.

The only defence I can think of is that the case did not comply with Pre-Action Protocol ie 

• a summary of the facts
• what you want from the party you're claiming from
• how you've calculated the sum you want to claim
• copies of the key documents that you'll use to support your case
• a list of any documents you want from the other party 
• a reasonable deadline for a response (usually 28 days)

Other than the above, I'm not sure what else to use as defence should I go down that road. I can use the usual signage downfalls but suspect that the markings/posts in the carpark may have improved over the years since 2017.

I've read through most of the newbie material but there isn't a case like this where no letters have been sent nor a letter before action - only a claim form. I'm looking for some advice on whether to defend this, and if so, how easy it would be? OR alternatively pay within 30 days and remove the CCJ from my records.

Thanks for reading and appreciate your response.

Cheers
 

Mouse007

Have you moved home in the last 6 or 7 years? DVLA V5c address correct?

tony150

Nope I've been at the same address for the last 20 years and the V5c was registered at my address.

Not that is matters but the vehicle was disposed of in 2018.

thanks

KeithP

tony150 said:

...the claim is dated 19th December but only received it on the 27th December most probably due to post strikes etc and need to send an AoS pronto.

Nothing needed 'pronto'. 

With a Claim Issue Date of 19th December, you have until Monday 9th January to file an Acknowledgment of Service but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 23rd January 2023 to file your Defence.

That's over three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Mouse007

tony150 said:

I'm looking for some advice on whether to defend this, and if so, how easy it would be? OR alternatively pay within 30 days and remove the CCJ from my records.
 

There is no CCJ until a Judge says so AND you fail to pay within 30 days after that. Of course you defend, it should be easy.

Can you show us the actual Particulars of Claim? do redact personal details but it would help to know location of car park.

tony150

Mouse007 said:

tony150 said:

I'm looking for some advice on whether to defend this, and if so, how easy it would be? OR alternatively pay within 30 days and remove the CCJ from my records.
 

There is no CCJ until a Judge says so AND you fail to pay within 30 days after that. Of course you defend, it should be easy.

Can you show us the actual Particulars of Claim? do redact personal details but it would help to know location of car park.

Sure.

POC states the following:

"Claim for money relating to a Parking Charge for breach of terms/conditions(TCs) for parking in private car park (CP) managed by claimant. Drivers may only park pursuant to TCs of use displayed in CP and agreed upon entry/parking. ANPR cameras or manual patrols monitor vehicles entering/exiting the CP and TC breaches. Charges of GBP206.00 claimed.
Violation date: 07/08/2017
Payment due date: 05/09/2017
Time in: 00:00 Time out: 23:59
PCN: RefXXXXXXXXXX
Vehicle ref mark: XXXXXXX
Car park:- Central Manchester Hospital"

I have definitely not had any correspondence at least in the last 12-24 months on this matter. As for the claimed breach, I have no recollection to visiting the hospital on that date. I do visit the hospital once or twice a quarter but my appointments are almost always on a Friday (due to work commitments) or Tuesdays (but this is rare) - the alleged breach date is a Monday which again I don't recall. 

Cheers

Umkomaas

Call the hospital to check out if any appointment of yours was on that date.  Start getting your ducks in a row. 

tony150

Sorry tony150 said:

Mouse007 said:

tony150 said:

I'm looking for some advice on whether to defend this, and if so, how easy it would be? OR alternatively pay within 30 days and remove the CCJ from my records.
 

There is no CCJ until a Judge says so AND you fail to pay within 30 days after that. Of course you defend, it should be easy.

Can you show us the actual Particulars of Claim? do redact personal details but it would help to know location of car park.

Sure.

POC states the following:

"Claim for money relating to a Parking Charge for breach of terms/conditions(TCs) for parking in private car park (CP) managed by claimant. Drivers may only park pursuant to TCs of use displayed in CP and agreed upon entry/parking. ANPR cameras or manual patrols monitor vehicles entering/exiting the CP and TC breaches. Charges of GBP206.00 claimed.
Violation date: 07/08/2017
Payment due date: 05/09/2017
Time in: 00:00 Time out: 23:59
PCN: RefXXXXXXXXXX
Vehicle ref mark: XXXXXXX
Car park:- Central Manchester Hospital

Total due- GBP206.00
(pay:www.ce-service.co.uk or 01158225020)
The Claimant claims the sum of GBP294.36 for the unpaid parking charge inc GBP88.36 interest under S.69 of the CCA 1984
Rate: 8.00% pa from due date to- 16/12/22
Same rate to judgement or sooner payment at daily rate of- GBP0.05
Total  debt and interest due- GBP294.36"

I have definitely not had any correspondence at least in the last 12-24 months on this matter. As for the claimed breach, I have no recollection to visiting the hospital on that date. I do visit the hospital once or twice a quarter but my appointments are almost always on a Friday (due to work commitments) or Tuesdays (but this is rare) - the alleged breach date is a Monday which again I don't recall. 

Cheers

Sorry now edited with full POC.

Mouse007

That does not identify any car park, "Central Manchester University Hospital NHS Foundation Trust, established in 2009, ran eight hospitals". It could be anywhere and anyone of them.

No hospital appointment would be at midnight and I think you would recall an emergency rush in

You need to get your SAR off to CEL asap. That may not arrive back before you have to file your defence, don't worry about that.

tony150

Mouse007 said:

That does not identify any car park, "Central Manchester University Hospital NHS Foundation Trust, established in 2009, ran eight hospitals". It could be anywhere and anyone of them.

No hospital appointment would be at midnight and I think you would recall an emergency rush in

You need to get your SAR off to CEL asap. That may not arrive back before you have to file your defence, don't worry about that.

Thanks - Just sent of SAR but as you say it won't come back in time. 

Going to do some reading on other cases and re-read newbies section and get comfortable with the defence template. 

Aside from the standard case law used in the defence templates is there anything else I should be focusing on?

for example

- lack of letter before claim
- vague car park description (as you say there are multiple in central manchester hospital)

Mouse007

The template defence already has this bit

"With regard to template statements, the Defendant observes after researching other parking cases, that the Particulars of Claim ('POC') set out a generic and incoherent statement of case.  Prior to this - and in breach of the pre-action protocol for 'Debt' Claims - no copy of the contract (sign) was served with a Letter of Claim.  The POC is sparse on facts about the allegation, making it difficult to respond in depth at this time."

You could edit the bit I've put in bold to match your opening post about receiving nothing prior to the Claim.

Maybe add something along the lines of, the PoC do not state what Term(s) or Condition(s) were breached and no copy of the T&Cs has been provided. The Defendant is unable to respond to a vague and incomplete claim relating to an unremarkable day 5 years ago. The Defendant does not recall visiting a hospital car park at midnight and staying for 24 hours on any day, let alone on the one stated.

Make it sound like there is no case to answer.

tony150 said:

Aside from the standard case law used in the defence templates is there anything else I should be focusing on?

Procedure Rules can be worth looking at

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part03/pd_part03a

After reading this one you will understand why the template defence uses the word "incoherent" . Perhaps say the Claim makes no sense at all.