Interpretation of no show, no refund condition

in Consumer rights
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YbeYbe Forumite
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If you make a non refundable booking with a small hotel and they ask whether you are still coming. If you then reply no, can they treat that as a no show and cancel your booking before the date of your arrival? If their terms and conditions also state that a no show will be charged at full value. 
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  • user1977user1977 Forumite
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    I'm not sure what other sensible interpretation you'd apply to "no, I'm not coming" as meaning that you no longer require the booking? If it's non-refundable anyway then what difference is it making?
  • edited 25 November 2022 at 6:47AM
    HampshireHHampshireH Forumite
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    edited 25 November 2022 at 6:47AM
    A non-refundable booking would be charged at that rate whether deemed a "no show" or cancellation.

    If you told them you weren't going I'm not sure what else you expected?
  • nyermennyermen Forumite
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    I would say that a "no show" can't be the situation until the relevant time/date has been reached.
    However - it also appears you may have "cancelled" with that response.  Any magistrate/judge would "on balance of probabilities" (civil case) likely agree surely?

    At that point, i think as "non-refundable" (rather than "deposit"), they are entitled to claim the money AND rebook your room to someone else without refunding you partially?  If it was a deposit, they could take the deposit, but then if rebooking the room, could only reasonably charge you their costs.  But others here can confirm (I suspect the T&C of booking would be important).
    Peter

    Debt free - finally finished paying off £20k + Interest.
  • YbeYbe Forumite
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    user1977 said:
    I'm not sure what other sensible interpretation you'd apply to "no, I'm not coming" as meaning that you no longer require the booking? If it's non-refundable anyway then what difference is it making?
    The terms also allow you to transfer the booking to someone else which I only spotted after I had said no. 
  • What date is the is the booking OP?
  • edited 25 November 2022 at 9:23AM
    user1977user1977 Forumite
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    edited 25 November 2022 at 9:23AM
    Ybe said:
    user1977 said:
    I'm not sure what other sensible interpretation you'd apply to "no, I'm not coming" as meaning that you no longer require the booking? If it's non-refundable anyway then what difference is it making?
    The terms also allow you to transfer the booking to someone else which I only spotted after I had said no. 
    In which case surely the correct answer would have been "no, but somebody else is coming in my place" (if that was in fact happening). And if not, I still can't see what difference it makes.
  • YbeYbe Forumite
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    What date is the is the booking OP?
    It’s for the period between Christmas and New year. 
  • edited 25 November 2022 at 12:59PM
    the_lunatic_is_in_my_headthe_lunatic_is_in_my_head Forumite
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    edited 25 November 2022 at 12:59PM
    Ybe said:
    What date is the is the booking OP?
    It’s for the period between Christmas and New year. 
    Thanks OP, generally speaking the hotel can't cancel your booking and keep full payment. 

    They can retain from a prepayment, or charge you, for either their costs or their loss of profit but not both.

    For loss of profit they can not gain from a windfall, this means they can not take your full payment and then let the room to someone else resulting in double payment.

    As with any claims each party must mitigate (lessen) their losses so the hotel must make an effort to secure a new booking.

    Given the period I would assume they are likely to be able to rebook the room and were the hotel full, other than minor admin, you should be refunded / not charged. 

    CMA guidance below on unfair terms with regards to prepayments and charges in the event the consumer breaches the contract are detailed in this document. 

     https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/450440/Unfair_Terms_Main_Guidance.pdf

    5.15 through to 5.17 cover this topic

    You say they take full payment if you don't show which, given the majority of the price will be profit, is fair enough (you could argue on a bit of electric or whatnot but the amounts are tiny, things like room cleaning won't be per room, they have to pay the cleaners to be there each day, etc, etc). 

    However you are not a no show, you are breaching the contract by cancelling in advance giving them time to assess as per the above. 
  • TELLIT01TELLIT01 Forumite
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    Ybe said:
    If you make a non refundable booking with a small hotel and they ask whether you are still coming. If you then reply no, can they treat that as a no show and cancel your booking before the date of your arrival? If their terms and conditions also state that a no show will be charged at full value. 

    The hotel wouldn't be treating it as a 'no show', they would be treating it as a cancellation as the OP informed them they would not be coming.  As the booking was non-refundable it is actually pretty irrelevant whether they actually listed it as no-show or cancellation.  Either way the OP won't be getting any money back.
  • brisbris Forumite
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    There's no such thing as a non refundable deposit in law.

    That however doesn't mean you get a refund.

    Its all about mitigating losses which in law the trader or whoever, is required to do.

    In this case a hotel has more than one room so if the hotel was fully booked, including rebooking your room them a refund is due.

    If they still have rooms then they can fill those first so its all about the availability.

    You could try booking a room on the day you were due to stay and if they say they are fully booked then you are due a refund.
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