Family death and attorney problems

andygb

On Friday, I received a phone call from a cousin I had not spoken to for over thirty years. I knew this meant trouble, because she and her sisters were in contact with my father and sister. She informed me that my sister (late 50's) had died that morning (Probable heart attack) and that she had been unwell for some time (I had been phoning my sister and dad regularly each week for some time and she never mentioned any illness). I then said I would phone her on Saturday around 08:30 to tell her what I had found out and where I could get a key for his house (she had one). So, I was left in total shock and I asked how my dad was (mid 90's) and was told he was in the local hospital. I couldn't get to them because they live a long way from us, I am suffering from long Covid and I have an important medical appointment today which I have waited 18 months for. I told the cousin that I would try to get to him on Monday, finished the call, then phoned the hospital in question to find out how he was. The nurse said that he was generally well, but confused, but she would get a doctor to call me ASAP. He then called and told me that my dad had advanced dementia, which I suspected, but he was comfortable and they were going to keep him in for a couple of days until I visited.

Yesterday, I phoned at 08:30 and left a message because nobody answered. We couldn't get through at any point until the cousin phoned back at 19:30. She quickly informed us that they were in my dad's house and were "bagging everything", because she had been made attorney a year ago. I then asked her to leave everything as it was and not touch anything personal. She wasn't happy and told us that they had picked a nursing home for my dad to go into. I then said that I would rather my dad comes to live with us, and trhat I was going to come over on Sunday. She said they would be leaving early in the morning. I asked them which solicitors were involved in the power of attorney and she refused to answer.

When I came off the phone, I called the police force local to my dad, and said there were two people pillaging in my dad's home. He got back to me an hour later and said they had power of attorney (no proof) and that it was a civil matter.

What is my best way to proceed with this, because I am next of kin to my deceased sister and to my father who has dementia.

p00hsticks

andygb said:

What is my best way to proceed with this, because I am next of kin to my deceased sister and to my father who has dementia.

I beleive 'Next of kin' has no real legal meaning.

I'd suggest you politely ask your cousin to demonstrate to you that she does indeed hold both health and financial POAs for your father, and if she does, then step back and/or try to re-build bridges with her, as she does indeed then have the right to make the decisions around your father's care. Note that there is not necessarily a need for a solictor to be involved in setting up a POA  - the main issue would be whether your father had the capacity to agree to it at the time. 

With regard to your sister, you need to confirm and agree who is going to report the death to the registrar and / or arrange the funeral.

Of course, she may not be in the right frame of mind to fully engage with you now you've set the police on her.....

Pennylane

It is unusual for a hospital to give any info to anybody over the phone even if you say you are a family member unless you have a code to give them. So looks like your Dad or someone has given your name as next of kin or power of attorney.  As POA for  my late Mum I was the only person allowed to get info over the phone unless I nominated another person and they were given a code to use.  

Keep_pedalling

Next of kin has no legal meaning, your sister’s estate is the responsibility of her executors (assuming she made a will). It seems your father has quite wisely appointed attorneys to handle his affaires for when he no longer had the mental capacity to act for himself. You would normally appoint your children to do this but it is clear from your post that you are not in a position to be able to do this so he appointed your cousin instead.

As his attorney she has to act in his best interests, and as someone who has had to deal with a parent with dementia I would say his best interests are almost certainly to be cared for by professionals rather than a child with serious health problems themselves. Looking after someone with advanced dementia is exceedingly demanding and is likely to have a major impact on the physical and mental of the cater. 

As for what you should do, you really just need to come to terms with the fact that your father has put his trust in your cousin to look after his health and financial affairs. I think you totally overreacted by involving the police, and for the sake of your ongoing relationship with her I would apologise for the over reaction.

Shelldean

https://www.gov.uk/find-someones-attorney-deputy-or-guardian

p00hsticks

Pennylane said:

It is unusual for a hospital to give any info to anybody over the phone even if you say you are a family member unless you have a code to give them.

That's not my experience - when my mother was in hospital recently for a couple of weeks I rang every day and was never asked for (or given) a code, and most days I spoke to someone different. I wasn't named as my mum's primary contact (that was my father) but we agreed to woudl be easier for me to do the ringing and then update him.

My initial thought was that a code seems a sensible idea, and I can see it potentially avoids someone unconnected getting given personal information on a patient but thinking of it a bit more I don't understand how it would realistically work in practice. Things were stressful enough at the time already - it was an emergency admittance by ambulance, she was taken to a hospital quite a few miles away and caught Covil whilst in there so was not allowed visitors anyhow - and if I'd had to jump through a lot of hoops to prove that I was entitled to be given a code in order to ask how my own mother was progressing each day seems a bit too much of a palaver, both for me and the overworked hospital staff.

elsien

Also just to let you know that doesn’t need to have been a solicitor involved for power-of-attorney. My mother and I set hers up just using the online system and a neighbour that she knows well to confirm about capacity.

However it would be wise to use the OPG link to confirm whether the power-of-attorney is for finances for health and welfare or both. The hospital should be checking rather than taking someone’s word for it. That happened when my aunt was in hospital. The power-of-attorney had to actually show proof before the ward would accept that the LPA was in place.

For clarity on the non-legal standing of “next-of-kin” you might want to have a look at this.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/wills-and-probate/content/104016

Brie

Sorry for your loss and the problems with your family.

To be clear - was your sister sharing the house with your dad?  If so how does the cousin know what's your dad's and your sister's?  And why is she bagging up anything at all??  Chances are nothing will happen with your dad for a couple of weeks at least so there's no rush to dismantle his home.  Getting a place in a care home rarely takes place in just a couple of days.  

I hope you can clear things up with your cousin.  It sounds like she has been helping out which would explain why she has (or thinks she has) POA.  

And while I think you probably have the best intentions in getting dad to come live with you please do think it through carefully.  An elderly individual needs a lot of support, particularly if their mind isn't as clear as previously.  You will need to be prepared to deal with all the physical side of looking after him (showers, helping with dressing etc) as well as coping with his confusion at being in a new place, clearing room for him to live, managing getting him in and out and around the house.  I've assisted with my MiL for the last 4+ years and know that it does not get easier.  Ultimately a move to a care home was the best thing for her.

andygb

Brie said:

Sorry for your loss and the problems with your family.

To be clear - was your sister sharing the house with your dad?  If so how does the cousin know what's your dad's and your sister's?  And why is she bagging up anything at all??  Chances are nothing will happen with your dad for a couple of weeks at least so there's no rush to dismantle his home.  Getting a place in a care home rarely takes place in just a couple of days.  

I hope you can clear things up with your cousin.  It sounds like she has been helping out which would explain why she has (or thinks she has) POA.  

And while I think you probably have the best intentions in getting dad to come live with you please do think it through carefully.  An elderly individual needs a lot of support, particularly if their mind isn't as clear as previously.  You will need to be prepared to deal with all the physical side of looking after him (showers, helping with dressing etc) as well as coping with his confusion at being in a new place, clearing room for him to live, managing getting him in and out and around the house.  I've assisted with my MiL for the last 4+ years and know that it does not get easier.  Ultimately a move to a care home was the best thing for her.

Thanks for this reply. My sister never left the family home and stayed with my father when my mother died. I should really have said, come to live in a care home close to us, so that we could visit him regularly. I have been in touch with the care home concerned and he is due to go there on Tuesday or Wednesday, so this has all been pre-planned. I was very concerned that the two people were bagging up stuff from my father's house.

JJWSJS8700

andygb said:

On Friday, I received a phone call from a cousin I had not spoken to for over thirty years. I knew this meant trouble, because she and her sisters were in contact with my father and sister. She informed me that my sister (late 50's) had died that morning (Probable heart attack) and that she had been unwell for some time (I had been phoning my sister and dad regularly each week for some time and she never mentioned any illness). I then said I would phone her on Saturday around 08:30 to tell her what I had found out and where I could get a key for his house (she had one). So, I was left in total shock and I asked how my dad was (mid 90's) and was told he was in the local hospital. I couldn't get to them because they live a long way from us, I am suffering from long Covid and I have an important medical appointment today which I have waited 18 months for. I told the cousin that I would try to get to him on Monday, finished the call, then phoned the hospital in question to find out how he was. The nurse said that he was generally well, but confused, but she would get a doctor to call me ASAP. He then called and told me that my dad had advanced dementia, which I suspected, but he was comfortable and they were going to keep him in for a couple of days until I visited.

Yesterday, I phoned at 08:30 and left a message because nobody answered. We couldn't get through at any point until the cousin phoned back at 19:30. She quickly informed us that they were in my dad's house and were "bagging everything", because she had been made attorney a year ago. I then asked her to leave everything as it was and not touch anything personal. She wasn't happy and told us that they had picked a nursing home for my dad to go into. I then said that I would rather my dad comes to live with us, and trhat I was going to come over on Sunday. She said they would be leaving early in the morning. I asked them which solicitors were involved in the power of attorney and she refused to answer.

When I came off the phone, I called the police force local to my dad, and said there were two people pillaging in my dad's home. He got back to me an hour later and said they had power of attorney (no proof) and that it was a civil matter.

What is my best way to proceed with this, because I am next of kin to my deceased sister and to my father who has dementia.

Contact the Office of the Public Guardian safeguarding team, they will investigate.

Has you father got any assets/property?

Brie

Well I'd be tempted to let him move as your cousin has planned.  I presume there is money to pay for this?  If so is she managing it all?  Otherwise it would be the council and that's what a lot of time with us.  I think you do have to at least ensure you know that she is doing the right things and for the right reasons.  That may include decluttering his house but from what you've said that was your sister's house too and your cousin has no right to deal with anything of hers.