Would you bother disclosing your experience as a manager to a [potential] new employer? 1 October 2022 at 4:59PM in Employment, jobseeking & training 14 replies 649 views

Miss_Cheef

As per other thread, as a result of long term sick leave I have basically been removed from my position as department manager and I get the distinct feeling that they want me to quit. 

Prior to all of this, if I had applied for another job elsewhere while in the role of manager where I work then I imagine it certainly wouldn't have done me no harm to put down that I am a manager. Implies a level of trust/faith/reliability. Not guaranteed of course but I imagine it wouldn't have done me any harm, even if in reality my role of manager wasn't really what you'd think of when you think manager in the traditional sense. 


But all that doesn't really matter because I'm just another foot soldier now. I can't put down on any application that I'm a manager because that'd be false - I'm no longer one. If I put down that I was one but I'm still at the same company then it appears a little bizarre I would've thought? As I suspect people generally don't get dropped down the ladder (unless they're sacked)? It would probably raise the question - well why aren't you now, a) why couldn't you handle it b) why wasn't you good enough c) why was you seen as unsuitable d) simply, why/how did you go from being in the role to not in the role ... all makes for a little awkward conversation.

And I'm just one of the little people and it's always the little people that are the problem. A company is always honest, supportive, do all they can etc.

I'm just seeking a little advice. Would you even bother mentioning it? I'm struggling to picture how it could now be advantageous. If anything, I can only see it being harmful to any application but my head is clouded and I would value an impartial view from someone not involved.

Thoughts appreciated.

MalMonroe

Hi, if being a manager is part of your employment history then yes, you can certainly put that on any job application.

There are laws to prevent employers from treating employees and prospective employees in a discriminatory manner.

Prospective employers wouldn't be allowed to ask some of the questions you pose above because they are aggressive and unhelpful.

Your confidence has obviously - and understandably - taken a big blow caused by the circumstances of your illness, long term sick leave and employment.

You could do worse than contact acas - https://www.acas.org.uk/contact  - for some advice in the first instance.

If you feel your employer has already discriminated against you in any way please do discuss that with acas too, as employers are not allowed to do that under the Equality Act of 2010.

Here is some government information about the Equality Act  -

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/equality-act-2010-guidance#:~:text=The Equality Act 2010 legally,strengthening protection in some situations

But as you say your head is clouded, I do think that acas will be able to help you to see the right way forward. It really is worth a try, in my opinion.

Brie

I have included my management experience on job applications and was prepared to explain why I stepped down a grade.  I discovered that my management role wasn't actually relevant to the running of the department and that I'd rather do a job of "doing" rather than sitting about in meetings that weren't going to be productive for me.  It reinforced the image I wanted to present as someone who could take a negative and find a positive solution that suited both me and the department I wanted to work for.  

The fact that I actually needed to get away from the management role because my manager was a control freak bully didn't need to be mentioned.  Subsequent managers I had knew that manager and were able to look at what I had achieved rather than the picture that might have been painted of me.

baser999

Might not consider yourself to be a manager now, though you clearly have had that experience, been responsible for overseeing other staff etc. Depending upon your future plans, that experience would count for a lot in some situations. Manager after all is merely a ‘title’. I retired after 20 years in the ambulance service, part of a team of 10, all ‘managers’ but called co-ordinators simply because the NHS system didn’t allow for that as our job title.

powerspowers

I’d mention it but have a plan for how you word that you are no longer a manager. From recruiting, more people than you realise have a bizarre work history. 

Miss_Cheef

Thanks for the responses. 
To be fair I'm pretty gutted about it. I enjoyed the job, enjoyed the role & took a long while to get there.

Many managers before me, they would over the years talk to me about the (poor) treatment from above. Some would go off sick due to it.
The manager directly before me warned me against taking the role before they left. Said it'd make me unwell. Told me - they'll support you in the beginning, everything will be hunky dory but then you'll end up frustrated through no support.

Nonsense I thought. It'll be different. 

Guts me that the previous manager called it exactly right so I feel like a wally for not taking their warning on board.

MalMonroe said:

Prospective employers wouldn't be allowed to ask some of the questions you pose above because they are aggressive and unhelpful.

Be that as it may, it still does raise the question of why aren't you at that level NOW. 

Whether they outright ask it, or just wonder it & fill in the gaps themselves (even if wrongly).

MalMonroe said:

You could do worse than contact acas - https://www.acas.org.uk/contact  - for some advice in the first instance.

If you feel your employer has already discriminated against you in any way please do discuss that with acas too, as employers are not allowed to do that under the Equality Act of 2010.

Here is some government information about the Equality Act  -

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/equality-act-2010-guidance#:~:text=The Equality Act 2010 legally,strengthening protection in some situations

But as you say your head is clouded, I do think that acas will be able to help you to see the right way forward. It really is worth a try, in my opinion.

I appreciate the help but I don't think Acas is a good idea tbh.

1) It causes more aggro. They want me to put my head down & say yes sir no sir 3 bags full sir whatever you want sir. For me to go to Acas just causes more conflict.

2) When they asked if I was happy with it (being demoted) and I refused to answer - basically saying what I feel or think or say does not matter in the slightest, they kept pushing me for how I felt. When I said what happens if I say I'm not happy with it, they responded saying that we can either do this the easy way or the hard way. 

I didn't get that translated in to English but I took from it that it basically meant a sacking - which is in no employees interest.

3) I don't believe they have discriminated against me. Of course, I'm no discrimination expert but they say that the department, after 20+ years of having a manager, no longer requires a manager. It's not like I've been replaced by 1 person. They put it that the department just basically gets on with the job without being directed, or at least did so in my absence - so therefore no manager required.
They didn't come out & say I'm removed because I'm fat or because of my gender or because of my religion or anything like that.

Brie said:

I discovered that my management role wasn't actually relevant to the running of the department and that I'd rather do a job of "doing" rather than sitting about in meetings that weren't going to be productive for me.  

This is why I say my role wasn't really a manager (or allowed to be) in the traditional sense.

Those that came before me basically used the role to sit on their backside & not do, or do very little. The knock on effect was they got little respect from the team.

I didn't want to do it like that. I wanted to "do". I actually wasn't allowed to sit back like those before me either. There's a number of people in charge where I work though & I'd get mixed messages - some would tell me I should essentially be a traffic controller, directing people but doing nothing myself whereas others would tell me I need to be doing - and all these people were above me. You'd do what one said & the other side would say you're doing wrong & then you'd do what they said & the other side to them would say you're doing wrong but neither side would tell the other side that they were wrong.

Whenever I instructed people & people got upset, I got told to essentially leave them alone. I'm upsetting them. 
They wanted me to basically be a stock-controller but leave people alone because people may get upset. Then if people started acting up I'd get it in the neck for them acting up & I should be lambasting them (not really my approach), so when I'd say something to people & people would then get upset, I'd get told for upsetting them. 

To summarise it was basically a case of choose what you wanted a telling for yourself. Doing A & B together were impossible. Do A and you got told for not doing B. Do B and you got told for not doing A. Do well & get no praise. Other people in your team act up & you get the blame - told to get them told. Say you've asked them & told them & asked them to do the job right & short of putting a gun to their head & saying or else, you can't physically do any more (you basically need support at this point). 
The support was ....... "tell them again".
Oh why didn't I think of that? I've only asked them to do the job right 20 times. I wasn't aware 21 times was the secret key.

baser999 said:

Might not consider yourself to be a manager now, though you clearly have had that experience, been responsible for overseeing other staff etc. Depending upon your future plans, that experience would count for a lot in some situations. Manager after all is merely a ‘title’. I retired after 20 years in the ambulance service, part of a team of 10, all ‘managers’ but called co-ordinators simply because the NHS system didn’t allow for that as our job title.

Something that has often interested me over the years. Was looking at becoming a paramedic a good number of years ago now before I got older and had "older-life-problems"
Though the major responsibility is what made me bottle it. 

theoretica

Miss_Cheef said:

Be that as it may, it still does raise the question of why aren't you at that level NOW. 

Whether they outright ask it, or just wonder it & fill in the gaps themselves (even if wrongly).

So give a straightforward answer - your employer made different arrangements during your long term absence, and chose to continue the new arrangements.

Marcon

MalMonroe said:

There are laws to prevent employers from treating employees and prospective employees in a discriminatory manner.

Prospective employers wouldn't be allowed to ask some of the questions you pose above because they are aggressive and unhelpful.

...but as we all know, 'laws' can usually be circumvented, especially when it comes to recruitment. There is no law that says an interviewer can't ask a question purely because it could be seen as 'aggressive and unhelpful' - they may well claim the answer would be very helpful.

theoretica said:

Miss_Cheef said:

Be that as it may, it still does raise the question of why aren't you at that level NOW. 

Whether they outright ask it, or just wonder it & fill in the gaps themselves (even if wrongly).

So give a straightforward answer - your employer made different arrangements during your long term absence, and chose to continue the new arrangements.

Quite - a very sensible response and has the merit of being absolutely true.

Miss_Cheef

theoretica said:

Miss_Cheef said:

Be that as it may, it still does raise the question of why aren't you at that level NOW. 

Whether they outright ask it, or just wonder it & fill in the gaps themselves (even if wrongly).

So give a straightforward answer - your employer made different arrangements during your long term absence, and chose to continue the new arrangements.

Thank you.

Sounds so simple when someone says it. As I say, my head is up my back end right now.


I totally get that they had to make arrangements while I was away. I never expected them to put the business on pause for me. Of course not.

Everything that's gone on this past week though - one or two things on their own you could say well maybe I'm imagining things but there's literally too many things combined together that make me feel they actively want me to quit. 
Overselling the fact they've managed great without me. Saying it once or twice, no problem, that's fine - that's just informing someone that the team managed well.
But saying it again, and again and over and over again various different ways, one after another after another & then the next day bringing it up again and then another time bringing it up again and again and again.

It's like ... I GET IT!!!!!! I got it the 100th time it was said. We don't need to aim for 200.

And then there's all the other stuff.


Anyway, thanks for your response. I was concerned I'd have to strike it off but you guys have shown me not necessarily so.

powerspowers

That’s just unnecessary of them, sounds like you’d be better treated elsewhere! 

I like the previous posters wording, it makes a bad situation sound neutral without lying. Good luck with your job search 

YBR

Miss_Cheef said:

3) I don't believe they have discriminated against me. Of course, I'm no discrimination expert but they say that the department, after 20+ years of having a manager, no longer requires a manager. It's not like I've been replaced by 1 person. They put it that the department just basically gets on with the job without being directed, or at least did so in my absence - so therefore no manager required.

For me this looks like "The company re-structured my department which me with a different role in the new arrangement"
Simple, neutral.