Breach of Contract, Theft, Harassment and Withholding of Deposit

fr33zy

Hi MSE Forum,

I write this on behalf of a close friend who finds himself in a complication situation.

He is a freelance private hire taxi driver in London.  He rents his vehicle from a company for a set weekly fee, which covers full use of the vehicle for work and social.  He has his own insurance. The maintenance of the vehicle is provided by the company and the mileage is unlimited.  He has been renting this vehicle for just under 12 months.

In recent days, the rental company took the vehicle from his driveway, without notice or warning, using the spare key they had.  His rent was up to date.  The reason the car was taken back was due to a personal argument between the company and my friend.  He did not have a formal rental agreement in place, but had a verbal contract and a permission letter, which was recently updated to give him permission to use the vehicle until December 2022.  Ths permission letter is needed to obtain insurance and work with various companies like Uber.  He should have had a rental agreement, but did not.

It is reasonable to presume, that reasonable notice should be given for either party to terminate the contract.  If the driver wants to return the car, the company need time to find someone else to rent the vehicle and if the company want the car back for whatever reason, the driver needs time to find an alternative rental car so as not to lose out of earnings.

Not only did the company take the car without any notice, but they took all of the personal belongings that were inside the car, which included a lot of important things, driving licence, glasses, money, taxi badge etc. 

They have advised my friend to come to collect his belongings from their offices, some 40 miles away, and return the car key they claim he has 'stolen'.  They have also refused to return his deposit, citing damages to the car and have claimed he actually owes more than the deposit due to the damages.  They have also sent him threatening and harassing messages, telling him he will be reported to the police for theft and to the taxi authorities and will lose his licence.

The police see this as a civil matter, and not theft as they have not refused to give back the items, but want him to bring back the key and collect his items. 

Any advise would be appreciated.

TELLIT01

Do what the police advise, as the most important first step is to get back his property.  After that he needs to take legal advice, not base actions on suggestions from an internet forum.

Marcon

fr33zy said:

Hi MSE Forum,

I write this on behalf of a close friend who finds himself in a complication situation.

He is a freelance private hire taxi driver in London.  He rents his vehicle from a company for a set weekly fee, which covers full use of the vehicle for work and social.  He has his own insurance. The maintenance of the vehicle is provided by the company and the mileage is unlimited.  He has been renting this vehicle for just under 12 months.

In recent days, the rental company took the vehicle from his driveway, without notice or warning, using the spare key they had.  His rent was up to date.  The reason the car was taken back was due to a personal argument between the company and my friend.  He did not have a formal rental agreement in place, but had a verbal contract and a permission letter, which was recently updated to give him permission to use the vehicle until December 2022.  Ths permission letter is needed to obtain insurance and work with various companies like Uber.  He should have had a rental agreement, but did not.

It is reasonable to presume, that reasonable notice should be given for either party to terminate the contract.  If the driver wants to return the car, the company need time to find someone else to rent the vehicle and if the company want the car back for whatever reason, the driver needs time to find an alternative rental car so as not to lose out of earnings.

Not only did the company take the car without any notice, but they took all of the personal belongings that were inside the car, which included a lot of important things, driving licence, glasses, money, taxi badge etc. 

They have advised my friend to come to collect his belongings from their offices, some 40 miles away, and return the car key they claim he has 'stolen'.  They have also refused to return his deposit, citing damages to the car and have claimed he actually owes more than the deposit due to the damages.  They have also sent him threatening and harassing messages, telling him he will be reported to the police for theft and to the taxi authorities and will lose his licence.

The police see this as a civil matter, and not theft as they have not refused to give back the items, but want him to bring back the key and collect his items. 

Any advise would be appreciated.

A fixed fee (or possibly even free) interview with a solicitor would be his best option.

DontBringBertie

fr33zy said:

Hi MSE Forum,

The police see this as a civil matter, and not theft as they have not refused to give back the items, but want him to bring back the key and collect his items. 

Any advise would be appreciated.

Haha, ridiculous.

So if I steal someone else’s phone and wallet but say “come and get them from my house up in Scotland” that’s OK according to the police?

Dakta

DontBringBertie said:

fr33zy said:

Hi MSE Forum,

The police see this as a civil matter, and not theft as they have not refused to give back the items, but want him to bring back the key and collect his items. 

Any advise would be appreciated.

Haha, ridiculous.

So if I steal someone else’s phone and wallet but say “come and get them from my house up in Scotland” that’s OK according to the police?

It's not that unusual, I once had my unit broken into and i tracked two items down and the 'theif' offered them back. Police advised to accept on the basis that if I felt it was getting nasty during the handover to give them a call.

As for the OP as above I think it requires some professional advice

fr33zy

DontBringBertie said:

fr33zy said:

Hi MSE Forum,

The police see this as a civil matter, and not theft as they have not refused to give back the items, but want him to bring back the key and collect his items. 

Any advise would be appreciated.

Haha, ridiculous.

So if I steal someone else’s phone and wallet but say “come and get them from my house up in Scotland” that’s OK according to the police?

That's exactly the example I gave to the police.  They said becausthe person is known to my friend, itis now a simple case of theft but a civil matter.  The vehicle belonged to her, and taking the vehicle back with the possessions inside is now a clear cut case of theft - which actually makes a little bit of sense.

My friend will be taking professional advice as the issue is no closer to benig resolved now then when I made this post

Malthusian

That's exactly the example I gave to the police.  They said becausthe person is known to my friend, itis now a simple case of theft but a civil matter.  The vehicle belonged to her, and taking the vehicle back with the possessions inside is now a clear cut case of theft - which actually makes a little bit of sense.

I'm confused by this paragraph. Is the "now" a "not"? Who's "her"? Your friend was masculine in the opening post. The vehicle belonged to the company.

I'm not defending the company, but the police are right, it is not simple theft. If the rental company were entitled to repossess the car (which, based on your post, they aren't) they would have been within their rights. You can't stop someone repossessing a vehicle by chucking a personal item inside it and saying that taking their vehicle constitutes theft. (It would be negligent to dump the contents of the car including valuables and identity documents on the roadside, and the company acted correctly by holding them at the office.)

And the dispute over whether they were entitled to reclaim their car is a civil matter.

The police aren't going to get involved even if the company breached the (unwritten) contract by taking the car. "Hi, this company has taken my wallet and taxi licence and they will give them back." "Sorry sir, did you mean they won't give them back?" "No, they will give them back, but I don't want to travel 40 miles at my own expense to collect them, because I'm in a dispute with them over a rented car." "Civil matter sir, move along. *click*"

Your friend should go to the office and collect his personal items before they mysteriously disappear. Then bill his travel expenses to the company along with the rest of his losses. And speak to a solicitor.

Undervalued

DontBringBertie said:

fr33zy said:

Hi MSE Forum,

The police see this as a civil matter, and not theft as they have not refused to give back the items, but want him to bring back the key and collect his items. 

Any advise would be appreciated.

Haha, ridiculous.

So if I steal someone else’s phone and wallet but say “come and get them from my house up in Scotland” that’s OK according to the police?

Theft requires the intention to permanently deprive.

fr33zy

Malthusian said:

That's exactly the example I gave to the police.  They said becausthe person is known to my friend, itis now a simple case of theft but a civil matter.  The vehicle belonged to her, and taking the vehicle back with the possessions inside is now a clear cut case of theft - which actually makes a little bit of sense.

Your friend should go to the office and collect his personal items before they mysteriously disappear. Then bill his travel expenses to the company along with the rest of his losses. And speak to a solicitor.

Sound advice, and that is what will now happen since the police, seem to not be taking this too seriously.

Undervalued

fr33zy said:

Malthusian said:

That's exactly the example I gave to the police.  They said becausthe person is known to my friend, itis now a simple case of theft but a civil matter.  The vehicle belonged to her, and taking the vehicle back with the possessions inside is now a clear cut case of theft - which actually makes a little bit of sense.

Your friend should go to the office and collect his personal items before they mysteriously disappear. Then bill his travel expenses to the company along with the rest of his losses. And speak to a solicitor.

Sound advice, and that is what will now happen since the police, seem to not be taking this too seriously.

Why would they? From what you have said, the police regard this as a civil matter and as far as I can see they are correct.

Ergates

fr33zy said:

Malthusian said:

That's exactly the example I gave to the police.  They said becausthe person is known to my friend, itis now a simple case of theft but a civil matter.  The vehicle belonged to her, and taking the vehicle back with the possessions inside is now a clear cut case of theft - which actually makes a little bit of sense.

Your friend should go to the office and collect his personal items before they mysteriously disappear. Then bill his travel expenses to the company along with the rest of his losses. And speak to a solicitor.

Sound advice, and that is what will now happen since the police, seem to not be taking this too seriously.

Did you not read all the posts explaining exactly why the police will not, and should not, "take this seriously"?