Civil Enforcement LTD Private Car Park 4 Year Old Court Claim Letter Received.

georgeireland

I've gone through the FAQ but honestly I'm at a loss at what to do. This is honestly so weird that I can't fathom how it got to this point.

So my Parent has received a 'County Court Business Centre' claim form for a parking charge ticket from 2018. Originally my parent ignored all the threatening letters and for the past 3 years haven't heard anything from them so assumed they gave up. Now there is a demand for £300+ that I as their son will have to fill out because they didn't let me know until today. This was for a 12 minute stay at the car park (to which 10 minutes of that presumably would be a grace period).

The details are as followed:

This is not a paid car park.
My Parent parked in a private 'customers only' restaurant car park during a time when the cameras were set up.
Originally they weren't there so it was unexpected and didn't notice them.
The car park is used as a location for a NatWest mobile banking branch for easy accessibility. 
They have parked in the car park dozens of times before without issue prior to the cameras being set up to do banking.
Within a maximum of 6 months (probably 4) the cameras were removed from the car park entirely, effectively the restaurant stopped partnering with them.
The alleged violation happened when the restaurant was closed, so there is no way my Parent could have 'input' their registration at reception.

All this time has added a mountain of interest almost deliberately and now I'm not sure what the options are. My Parent is depressed and suicidal over this which is why I'm currently doing it for them now. I have some minor images from the time but not very good ones, meaning creating a defence is troublesome.

Thank you for any advice you can give.

Fruitcake

Whilst you can deal with this on the defendant's behalf, everything MUST be in their name, obviously with their permission.

The advice to ignore a PCN has not been given here since the law changed nearly ten years ago, but that cannot now be changed.

Start by reading the guide to court written by bargepole that you will find in the second post of the NEWBIES Announcement.

Complete the AoS on or after Day 6 to get the maximum time available to defend it.

Send an SAR as per the NEWBIES asap to the DPO of the claimant. You will need to include proof of the defendant's ID to include in the request. Do not include phot ID.
The V5C if the keeper still has it, or two redacted utility bills or bank/car statements or one plus a copy of the claim form.

Plan A is always the best, a landowner cancellation.

Get pics of the site and use Google Maps Street View (GSV) to see if there are any historic images that may be useful.

Please tell us where and when (at least the year and month) this occurred as it may have cropped up here before. 

Use the defence template you will find in one of the other sticky Announcements, amend only the parts you have changed, and show us just those paragraphs.

Do not reveal the driver's identity. It is highly likely that nobody would actually know for certain on an unremarkable day four years ago, especially if others had access to the car. 
Don't help the claimant's case by trying to work out who was driving if you genuinely can't remember.

georgeireland

Fruitcake said:

Whilst you can deal with this on the defendant's behalf, everything MUST be in their name, obviously with their permission.

Start by reading the guide to court written by bargepole that you will find in the second post of the NEWBIES Announcement.

Complete the AoS on or after Day 6 to get the maximum time available to defend it.

Thank you, I'll check it out. I only have about 2 days to send off the AoS so that won't be an issue.

Trainerman

Good that you are helping, but if the forms are in their name, they need to sign off on everything even if you are doing the spadework. I would try to let them know not to be depressed and that this really is beatable. Firstly, getting rid off the fake add-ons but also in beating the entire thing.

If it was ANPR ( which it sounds like), are there any images of a parked vehicle rather than one entering/leaving? It seems to me that you have more than one defence here. Let us know what the exact wording of the "contravention" is, read up on the Newbies and start on defence. 

Let us know the issue date of the claim and @KeithP can fill you in on important dates. Come back with first draft of defence when ready and tell parent to be hopeful !!!

Fruitcake

You will be able to act as Lay Representative at the hearing and speak for the defendant, but they must be present.

Read back every now and again because many of the regulars including myself think of things after we have posted, then go back to edit our posts.

georgeireland

Trainerman said:

Good that you are helping, but if the forms are in their name, they need to sign off on everything even if you are doing the spadework. I would try to let them know not to be depressed and that this really is beatable. Firstly, getting rid off the fake add-ons but also in beating the entire thing.

If it was ANPR ( which it sounds like), are there any images of a parked vehicle rather than one entering/leaving? It seems to me that you have more than one defence here. Let us know what the exact wording of the "contravention" is, read up on the Newbies and start on defence. 

Let us know the issue date of the claim and @KeithP can fill you in on important dates. Come back with first draft of defence when ready and tell parent to be hopeful !!!

Regrettably no, my parent threw away the original demand for money. They still have the threatening bailiff letters but the most I have is an image of the car park signs. The particulars of the claim are:

"Claim for money relating to a Parking Charge for breach of contract terms/conditions (TCs) for parking in private car park (CP) managed by Claimant. Drivers may only park pursuant to TCs of use displayed in CP and agreed upon entry/parking. ANPR cameras or manual patrols monitor vehicles entering exiting the CP and TC breaches."

Issue date seems to be 09/11/2018. Time in 13:00 Time out 13:12.

I'm working on what I can for the defence now.

KeithP

georgeireland said:

Trainerman said:

Good that you are helping, but if the forms are in their name, they need to sign off on everything even if you are doing the spadework. I would try to let them know not to be depressed and that this really is beatable. Firstly, getting rid off the fake add-ons but also in beating the entire thing.

If it was ANPR ( which it sounds like), are there any images of a parked vehicle rather than one entering/leaving? It seems to me that you have more than one defence here. Let us know what the exact wording of the "contravention" is, read up on the Newbies and start on defence. 

Let us know the issue date of the claim and @KeithP can fill you in on important dates. Come back with first draft of defence when ready and tell parent to be hopeful !!!

Issue date seems to be 09/11/2018. Time in 13:00 Time out 13:12.

@Trainerman was asking for the Issue Date of your County Court Claim Form.

georgeireland

KeithP said:

georgeireland said:

Trainerman said:

Good that you are helping, but if the forms are in their name, they need to sign off on everything even if you are doing the spadework. I would try to let them know not to be depressed and that this really is beatable. Firstly, getting rid off the fake add-ons but also in beating the entire thing.

If it was ANPR ( which it sounds like), are there any images of a parked vehicle rather than one entering/leaving? It seems to me that you have more than one defence here. Let us know what the exact wording of the "contravention" is, read up on the Newbies and start on defence. 

Let us know the issue date of the claim and @KeithP can fill you in on important dates. Come back with first draft of defence when ready and tell parent to be hopeful !!!

Issue date seems to be 09/11/2018. Time in 13:00 Time out 13:12.

@Trainerman was asking for the Issue Date from your County Court Claim Form.

Ah, my bad. That would be the 25th March 2022.

Trainerman

georgeireland said:

Trainerman said:

Good that you are helping, but if the forms are in their name, they need to sign off on everything even if you are doing the spadework. I would try to let them know not to be depressed and that this really is beatable. Firstly, getting rid off the fake add-ons but also in beating the entire thing.

If it was ANPR ( which it sounds like), are there any images of a parked vehicle rather than one entering/leaving? It seems to me that you have more than one defence here. Let us know what the exact wording of the "contravention" is, read up on the Newbies and start on defence. 

Let us know the issue date of the claim and @KeithP can fill you in on important dates. Come back with first draft of defence when ready and tell parent to be hopeful !!!

Regrettably no, my parent threw away the original demand for money. They still have the threatening bailiff letters but the most I have is an image of the car park signs. The particulars of the claim are:

"Claim for money relating to a Parking Charge for breach of contract terms/conditions (TCs) for parking in private car park (CP) managed by Claimant. Drivers may only park pursuant to TCs of use displayed in CP and agreed upon entry/parking. ANPR cameras or manual patrols monitor vehicles entering exiting the CP and TC breaches."

Issue date seems to be 09/11/2018. Time in 13:00 Time out 13:12.

I'm working on what I can for the defence now.

Then parent must bang in a Subject Access Request NOW to the parking company, as in the newbies. It might not be in time for defence, but will be for Witness Statement. It will show you everything they have and that is important.

Potential defences to work on --  driving in/out is not parking. Contract void for impossibility as restaurant closed, key pad inaccessible and maybe on that day you were going to the restaurant, poor/confusing signage. maybe more

KeithP

With a Claim Issue Date of 25th March, you have until Wednesday 13th April to file an Acknowledgment of Service but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 27th April 2022 to file your Defence.

That's over three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service instructions.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Of course everywhere I have written 'you' or 'your' I mean the named Defendant.

georgeireland

KeithP said:

With a Claim Issue Date of 25th March, you have until Wednesday 13th April to file an Acknowledgment of Service but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 27th April 2022 to file your Defence.

That's over three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service instructions.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Of course everywhere I have written 'you' or 'your' I mean the named Defendant.

Right, I've done the AoS now. Truthfully I'm finding this all very overwhelming. I'm going to work on what I can for the defence.