Can I request higher percentage of ownership of inherited house?

Rozzierae

My mum passed away a week ago, since then I’ve had several discussions with my brother and his wife about mum‘s house. Previous to her developing dementia, she wanted me to have the house. My brother is financially stable and lives in a mortgage free house thanks to an inheritance on his wife’s side. I on the other hand rent, I have been dealing with mental health issues most of my life, so my mum wanted me to have some security, but was also concerned that my brother would feel left out. Hence she did not write a Will as felt conflicted. She wanted him to have some money of his own, but I am not in a position to give that, which makes it challenging.

Although I have supported mum for many years this increased with the dementia. Over a 2 1/2 year period I became her main carer, being supported by social services. We have always been close and saw each other most days, I lived up the road. It was incredibly stressful and on more than one occasion it took me to the brink of despair. During this time my brother and his wife were not present through choice to support her, they never  came down to give me a break and never dealt with any of the issues surrounding her care. It was 24/7, and although I did not live with her, I was there every day and supported via cameras and video. During this time they said to me that I should have the house, if she had gone into a home 80% of its value would’ve been used up in care home fees by now. Yet now one minute they are saying they don’t want much, the next to own half, then to sell. It grates me that if I had not stepped up there would be no house now, and their tooing and froing is stressing me out. The house was also adapted to meet her needs, the grant stipulates that this would need to be paid if the house is sold, but if I stay for this duration it doesn’t.  Can I live in the property? Can I request a higher percentage of ownership? At this point if mum was in a care home my brother would have got approx £20,000. I was going to suggest this amount be taken from my dads estate when his wife passes, and for the property of my mums to go to his daughter when I pass. Is this feasible? Thank you.

Thrugelmir

With no will. A person dies intestate. Law determines the division of assets and who benefits. Any variation will need to be mutually agreed between the partes concerned. 

MalMonroe

I'm really sorry about your loss.

There's some information here from Citizens Advice about what happens when someone dies without leaving a will - 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and-wills/who-can-inherit-if-there-is-no-will-the-rules-of-intestacy

And they may be able to advise you further if you phone them. But it does appear that whatever is left has to be divided equally between you and your brother. 

You and your brother and his wife need to sit down and talk about these things calmly and sensibly. I think you'll also need to consult a solicitor because it sounds quite complicated when you add in details about your dad's estate.

Don't forget that you're probably all feeling in a state of shock right now, it's only been a week since your Mum died. 

Rozzierae

Thank you both. They jumped straight on the subject, I understand they want some clarity but my head is all over the place. Writing it down the thing that hurts the most is that they think they should get half, it is not about the money as I just want some security , it just suggests a complete lack of recognition of everything I did to support mum alone. If they had been a part of this process of support it would be different.  Not only the practicalities but her behaviour due to dementia. Every day there was punching, spitting, kicking out, refusing meds, she was doubly incontinent and attacked carers. Dealing with health issues. It was getting to the point where I was verging on a breakdown and respite was being organised. My motivations were keeping her where I promised her she would stay, security for me in having somewhere to live, and a future inheritance for my niece. This would not be a reality now had I not done all this. Thank you, I really do need legal advice.

getmore4less

Are you in a position to maintain the property?

Not clear how you dad's wife comes into this.

You can ask for anything but it will require agreement.

Your proposal to have the house go to brothers kid(s) could be achieved with a DOV, you have a life interest.

There are potential deprivation issues if you put your share into a life interest trust, maybe just your brother's share if agreeable.

Pollycat

My condolences for your loss.

Rozzierae said:

Thank you both. They jumped straight on the subject, I understand they want some clarity but my head is all over the place. Writing it down the thing that hurts the most is that they think they should get half, it is not about the money as I just want some security , it just suggests a complete lack of recognition of everything I did to support mum alone. If they had been a part of this process of support it would be different.  Not only the practicalities but her behaviour due to dementia. Every day there was punching, spitting, kicking out, refusing meds, she was doubly incontinent and attacked carers. Dealing with health issues. It was getting to the point where I was verging on a breakdown and respite was being organised. My motivations were keeping her where I promised her she would stay, security for me in having somewhere to live, and a future inheritance for my niece. This would not be a reality now had I not done all this. Thank you, I really do need legal advice.

With no will, that will be what the law says they should get.
It will be up to your brother to agree to give you more than your half you are entitled to.
Seeking legal advice may annoy him.
You should appeal to his better side - if he has one.

Sadly, it was up you your Mum to guarantee your security by making a will.

I'm not sure what you mean about your Dad's estate.
It is up to him and his wife what they put in their wills.
Even if you agree with them what they will put in their wills, they could change their minds.

I'm really sorry for the position you are in.
My Gran was the same - she looked after her uncle for many years but when he died intestate, his son from whom he'd been estranged for many years took the lot.

Sea_Shell

Rozzierae said:

Thank you both. They jumped straight on the subject, I understand they want some clarity but my head is all over the place. Writing it down the thing that hurts the most is that they think they should get half, it is not about the money as I just want some security , it just suggests a complete lack of recognition of everything I did to support mum alone. If they had been a part of this process of support it would be different.  Not only the practicalities but her behaviour due to dementia. Every day there was punching, spitting, kicking out, refusing meds, she was doubly incontinent and attacked carers. Dealing with health issues. It was getting to the point where I was verging on a breakdown and respite was being organised. My motivations were keeping her where I promised her she would stay, security for me in having somewhere to live, and a future inheritance for my niece. This would not be a reality now had I not done all this. Thank you, I really do need legal advice.

Sorry for your loss.    

Everyone deals with these things differently.   Some are pragmatists and some are emotional.    Dealing with the matter in a detached an unemotional way is how some people cope, which can seem heartless to others.

If there is no will, then it is an intestate estate and they ARE due half, maybe all they were doing was pointing that out, so that the position was made clear.   So now you're left in a position of NEGOTIATION.

As I understand it "intestacy" can't be contested* in the same way that a will can, if it is felt that it doesn't provide for you sufficiently.   However, if you can all agree, then the estate's distribution can be amended, but that's between you and your brother.

Has he said that he's going to apply to administer the estate?   Who has the death certificate?



* I think, someone will correct me if wrong.

74jax

You say your mam wanted you to have a larger share before the dementia happened, but decided against it. 

You need to follow the wishes she left. 
I know it may seem harsh, but if she had wanted you to have a larger share then as she was of sound mind, she could have.

Everyone deals with grief differently, I was the one who took charge of mams Estate as my brother took her death harder than me. Could this maybe what is happening here? Your brother understands you may not be able to deal with it all so soon? 

There is nothing wrong with talking scenarios over - it better to talk to each other than through solicitors. Ask him if he would consider a Deed of Variation, if he says no at least you've asked. 

I did the majority for mam, but when it came down to the split, it was 50/50.  To be fair even though I knew it was 50/50 I still did the majority, as it needed doing (typical control freak I was) I never had a good relationship with my mam, we just didn't get on, but I worshipped my dad and he would have wanted me to care as best I could....  We too managed to keep the house from care fees. My brother, on her death swayed from selling to keeping for so long. 

Sorry I digress... In your shoes, if arrange to meet up. Have a list of everything that needs sorting, who will do what, and when it comes to the splitting ask if he'd consider a DoV.

Maybe value the house 2.5years ago, then value it now.  Whatever that difference is split it 50/50 to get an initial figure and ask if he would consider you having a 75/25 split of the difference instead?  So say it was 200k 2.5yrs ago, now it's 250k.  It's a difference of 50k due to you helping mam.
So 25k each, but could you have say 37k and he have 13k.  The rest of the house before 2.5yrs ago is 50/50.

74jax

Sorry I wanted to add, my mam too had dementia. In time you do start to remember her how she was before the dementia.  For me that isn't great as, like I say, we didn't get on amazingly, but I remember snippets of a very happy childhood. Something that was tainted when the dementia hit. 
Dementia changes people so much, it's heartbreaking seeing it infront off your eyes.
I get peace now hoping she's with dad (I'm not religious, or believe in afterlife) but I somehow deal with it, that she's back to her old self, dad is pain free and they are together. 
You really do have my upmost respect for doing what you did, as I did similar and it is not easy. 

Rozzierae

I am so glad I came on here, I really needed some level heads, thank you. My brother and I won't fall out over this, I don't think it's worth it, I would get by whatever happens. I am dealing with it all, mostly because I have been with everything else. My mum was very conflicted about it, prior to the dementia the 50/50 split would not have even been questioned. It is purely based on what mum and I went through after diagnosis, I made that choice though, and would do it all again. We were always joined at the hip, so it was a given really I would fight her corner. I will try to  negotiate with them, I don't want him to feel he has lost out in any way, she loved us equally, she just wanted me to be secure, jax74, she did not decide against it,  but she never followed things through, she could never focus on things long enough to complete

74jax said:

You say your mam wanted you to have a larger share before the dementia happened, but decided against it. 

You need to follow the wishes she left. 
I know it may seem harsh, but if she had wanted you to have a larger share then as she was of sound mind, she could have.

Everyone deals with grief differently, I was the one who took charge of mams Estate as my brother took her death harder than me. Could this maybe what is happening here? Your brother understands you may not be able to deal with it all so soon? 

There is nothing wrong with talking scenarios over - it better to talk to each other than through solicitors. Ask him if he would consider a Deed of Variation, if he says no at least you've asked. 

I did the majority for mam, but when it came down to the split, it was 50/50.  To be fair even though I knew it was 50/50 I still did the majority, as it needed doing (typical control freak I was) I never had a good relationship with my mam, we just didn't get on, but I worshipped my dad and he would have wanted me to care as best I could....  We too managed to keep the house from care fees. My brother, on her death swayed from selling to keeping for so long. 

Sorry I digress... In your shoes, if arrange to meet up. Have a list of everything that needs sorting, who will do what, and when it comes to the splitting ask if he'd consider a DoV.

Maybe value the house 2.5years ago, then value it now.  Whatever that difference is split it 50/50 to get an initial figure and ask if he would consider you having a 75/25 split of the difference instead?  So say it was 200k 2.5yrs ago, now it's 250k.  It's a difference of 50k due to you helping mam.
So 25k each, but could you have say 37k and he have 13k.  The rest of the house before 2.5yrs ago is 50/50.

That really makes a lot of sense and I actually feel like my head is a bit straighter now, thank you. 
.74jax said:

Sorry I wanted to add, my mam too had dementia. In time you do start to remember her how she was before the dementia.  For me that isn't great as, like I say, we didn't get on amazingly, but I remember snippets of a very happy childhood. Something that was tainted when the dementia hit. 
Dementia changes people so much, it's heartbreaking seeing it infront off your eyes.
I get peace now hoping she's with dad (I'm not religious, or believe in afterlife) but I somehow deal with it, that she's back to her old self, dad is pain free and they are together. 
You really do have my upmost respect for doing what you did, as I did similar and it is not easy. 

It's really tough, she could be really cruel at times, but I never took it to heart as I would be frustrated and angry too in that situation. I hope I can heal from all that in time, I appreciate your words. Your mum was lucky to have you, it takes a lot of strength to put everything aside and do what is in your loved Wanted, I bet she appreciated being at home.

Pollycat

Rozzierae said:

It's really tough, she could be really cruel at times, but I never took it to heart as I would be frustrated and angry too in that situation. I hope I can heal from all that in time, I appreciate your words. Your mum was lucky to have you, it takes a lot of strength to put everything aside and do what is in your loved Wanted, I bet she appreciated being at home.

As 74jax says, it's very hard to look after someone with dementia.
My sister did it, she was much closer than me to Mum and was the baby of the family.
As it happens, Mum did make a will.
But if she hadn't I would have made sure that my sister was financially recompensed for what she did for Mum. I too am financially stable and am mortgage free.
I hope your brother feels the same way as I did.