Seller breach of contract - Fixtures and Fittings

Tiglet2

I do sympathise with the OP - I would have been annoyed about this too.

However, OP must bear in mind that his conveyancing solicitor cannot do much other than write a letter to the seller's solicitor.  If the letter gets ignored, then OP would need to instruct a litigation solicitor to pursue it, and/or claim through the small claims court.

Unfortunately conveyancers deal with the legal transfer of property, they do not deal with litigation matters.  While OP may want go down this route, it could prove expensive and time consuming.  It is annoying when the Fixtures & Contents list state that something is included and, of course, this is a legal document, but unfortunately the sales particulars produced by the EA, is not a legal document and should not be relied upon.

Did the OP view the property again between exchange and completion?

HampshireH

Everytime you liaise with your solicitor it's costing you money.

Everytime they write a letter or email it costs you money.

Taking it to court will cost you money.

Is it really worth it? I'd say no. It all adds up ....... Possibly to the same cost of the 2nd hand appliances.

Just enjoy your new home.

brasso

In the OP's position I’d be very annoyed indeed. The problem is how the seller described the ovens. If they weren’t described as Neff ovens in the documentation, the buyer may not have a strong case. When you’re shown round a house you see all sorts of things that aren’t included in the sale. If the legal documentation simply says 'fitted ovens' or similar then it’s hard to say the sellers were deliberately deceitful (even if you suspect that they were). You have to check how the items were described in the EA's particulars as well. If they say 'oven as shown' or similar you have a case. If they’re vague, it’ll be tricky. You have to evaluate the relative cost differential between the new ovens and the old used ovens, and estimate the legal costs too. Crucially, you have to think about the emotional cost, and the time you’ll waste. People get eaten up by these relatively small issues. As annoyed as I’d be, I’d probably put it down to experience and move on.

TheJP

pinkshoes said:

TheJP said:

Unless the listing and F&F clearly stated Neff ovens then you'll have a hard time winning this. If the listing and F&F referenced oven included then they have included oven. When making offers and completing the F&F it needs to be clear what you want left as a condition of sale.

I disagree with this. It is FITTED oven rather than a stand alone one, so if there was a NEFF oven in the EA's photos, and a NEFF oven when the OP looked around, then that is what should still be there, and the seller should have stated in writing if that wasn't going to be the case. Who on earth takes a FITTED oven with them?!?!?

Ditto for the green house. If it got damaged mysteriously between exchange and completion, then the first thing you would do is notify the vendor and ask what they wanted to do. How damaged can it possibly get??? And I'm assuming the vendor then took a photo of said damage before removing the entire green house?!

I think the OP is quite right to be annoyed, as I certainly would be. 

(I'm not a gambling person but I bet the green house is now in their new garden!)

Again unless the listing specifically said Neff appliances and the OP had agreement in their contract and F&F then this can happen. Whether its fitted or not makes no difference as the devil is in the detail where contracts are concerned. I'm not saying its right but in the eyes of the legal system if Neff wasn't stated then the OP got what they paid for, a fitted oven.

Again the detail regarding the greenhouse needs to be clear but i wouldnt chase this as depending on how old it was the costs could cost more than the greenhouse.

JReacher1

pinkshoes said:

TheJP said:

Unless the listing and F&F clearly stated Neff ovens then you'll have a hard time winning this. If the listing and F&F referenced oven included then they have included oven. When making offers and completing the F&F it needs to be clear what you want left as a condition of sale.

I disagree with this. It is FITTED oven rather than a stand alone one, so if there was a NEFF oven in the EA's photos, and a NEFF oven when the OP looked around, then that is what should still be there, and the seller should have stated in writing if that wasn't going to be the case. Who on earth takes a FITTED oven with them?!?!?

Ditto for the green house. If it got damaged mysteriously between exchange and completion, then the first thing you would do is notify the vendor and ask what they wanted to do. How damaged can it possibly get??? And I'm assuming the vendor then took a photo of said damage before removing the entire green house?!

I think the OP is quite right to be annoyed, as I certainly would be. 

(I'm not a gambling person but I bet the green house is now in their new garden!)

I'm terrible at DIY but even I can do a fitted oven.  It slots into a standard sized space and you plug it in (some are admittedly hard wired). They're so easy to install and remove I can see why they did it if the ovens were expensive and they needed new ones at the new house

Think it they had not replaced it with new ovens they would be out of order but the fixtures and fittings list specify a fitted oven and that is what is there (2 brand new ones).  

Maybe a LBA might trigger a couple of hundred quid compensation but going to court seems more trouble than its worth,

martindow

FTB2021HELP said:

... completed early November 2021 and moved into the house late November 2021. 

In early December I noticed that the sellers had swapped both of the expensive (£700+ each at least) neff electric ovens out with cheap (£189 each) bush fan ovens. There are two ovens in the kitchen. ...

This is an extract from the OP.  I think I would be annoyed too, but on the other hand this was something that was apparently not noticed for a week or two. 

Perhaps it is something to put behind you and enjoy being in your new house?

steampowered

Personally I'd be tempted to go ahead and serve small claims proceedings on the defendant, c/o their solicitor's address. You can be pretty sure that the solicitor would pass that on.

The fact that the defendant replaced the ovens with cheaper ovens before moving clearly shows they knew what they were doing, so this sounds like an easy case - if you can start the court process.

If the defendant wishes to claim that service was invalid, they need to provide an address to do that.

If the defendant does not contest service, then they will receive a CCJ which will trash their credit rating for the next 6 years.

The court fees are £80 to issue a claim between £500-£1000. You get repaid by the defendant if you win the case.

HampshireH

steampowered said:

Personally I'd be tempted to go ahead and serve small claims proceedings on the defendant, c/o their solicitor's address. You can be pretty sure that the solicitor would pass that on.

The fact that the defendant replaced the ovens with cheaper ovens before moving clearly shows they knew what they were doing, so this sounds like an easy case - if you can start the court process.

If the defendant wishes to claim that service was invalid, they need to provide an address to do that.

If the defendant does not contest service, then they will receive a CCJ which will trash their credit rating for the next 6 years.

The court fees are £80 to issue a claim between £500-£1000. You get repaid by the defendant if you win the case.

I think we are still waiting to find out what was actually promised. (But I may have missed the post)

An Oven or a Neff oven model xxxx

If and Oven then the seller has provided this and isn't in breach of the agreement. They could have left any make/model of their choosing.

OP got a brand new oven instead of one which may have been any amount of years old.

It also took a Month for OP to realise their oven was different. Very strange

lincroft1710

steampowered said:

Personally I'd be tempted to go ahead and serve small claims proceedings on the defendant, c/o their solicitor's address. .

Would a court accept that as correct service?

What is the value of secondhand Neff ovens of which only the vendor would be aware of their age and condition? What would be the value difference between these and the virtually new ovens provided, because this is all the vendor can claim for.  

The vendors would only receive a CCJ if they failed to pay the amount awarded by the court and not everyone needs or wants credit.

brasso

steampowered said:

Personally I'd be tempted to go ahead and serve small claims proceedings on the defendant, c/o their solicitor's address. You can be pretty sure that the solicitor would pass that on.

The fact that the defendant replaced the ovens with cheaper ovens before moving clearly shows they knew what they were doing, so this sounds like an easy case - if you can start the court process.

If the defendant wishes to claim that service was invalid, they need to provide an address to do that.

If the defendant does not contest service, then they will receive a CCJ which will trash their credit rating for the next 6 years.

The court fees are £80 to issue a claim between £500-£1000. You get repaid by the defendant if you win the case.

As has been said, it's all about what was promised. If NEFF wasn't mentioned by name, only that the kitchen had 'fitted ovens' then regrettably, I'm not sure the OP has much of a case. It's the most important thing that the court will want to establish -- just what exactly was promised by the seller to the buyer. If the seller has delivered what was promised, it's hard to see them losing the case.