Old electricity supplier used wrong closing reading (but not the new one)

Reed_Richards

Deleted_User said:

My reason for asking the new supplier to do this was precisely that I understood that the new supplier is supposed to manage the transfer process.

So I don't think I've misunderstood the process at all. Please explain if I have!

Sorry, my mistake.  I had thought the obvious thing to do in order to resolve a discrepancy was to raise it with the supplier you thought had the wrong reading but @[Deleted User] 's answer has convinced me this is not the best way to do it.

ntadmin

If the above discussion does see, to make clear, it’s that the process is clearly not obvious to a consumer. As a consumer, it seems reasonable to complain to the supplier which has the wrong reading. I did this, and was asked to ask my new supplier to do various things. I did. They did. No change. I had to go round this loop several times simply to get them to use the same reading.

i quite understand that the using the wrong (but the same) readings for both suppliers actually has marginal impact on total paid, and so understand why it has to have a reasonable error before being changed. This was not the case here.

But my question is this: who is in charge of defining this process and how do we ask them to make some things clear and easy for consumers rather than mired in the industry process that suppliers themselves get bogged down in, let alone consumers?

[Deleted User]

ntadmin said:

If the above discussion does see, to make clear, it’s that the process is clearly not obvious to a consumer. As a consumer, it seems reasonable to complain to the supplier which has the wrong reading. I did this, and was asked to ask my new supplier to do various things. I did. They did. No change. I had to go round this loop several times simply to get them to use the same reading.

i quite understand that the using the wrong (but the same) readings for both suppliers actually has marginal impact on total paid, and so understand why it has to have a reasonable error before being changed. This was not the case here.

But my question is this: who is in charge of defining this process and how do we ask them to make some things clear and easy for consumers rather than mired in the industry process that suppliers themselves get bogged down in, let alone consumers?

Who is in charge: simple, it is the Government. Ministerial responsibility sits with BEIS and Ofgem (a non Ministerial Government Department) issues, inter alia, Supply Licences. Your post suggests that the switching process is broken: given that many hundreds of thousands* of switches take place every month a few posts on MSE do not suggest that there is a widespread switching problem. There is no need to fix something that isn’t broken. 

As I posted earlier, all the detail is this presentation:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2018/02/as_is_switching_arrangements.pdf

* 430,000 switches in June 2021 (source Ofgem)

victor2

When I last switched supplier, the "independent body" changed my final gas reading to something ridiculous - less than the actual reading I'd submitted two months previously. The new supplier informed me that they had disputed the adjusted figure. I provided them with photographs of my meter reading on the changeover day.

Eventually, they said that both my old supplier and themselves had agreed to use my readings. They did so, but the losing supplier used their own estimate, which was higher than the actual, so I was charged for the same gas twice.

I complained to the new supplier and, to their credit, they credited my account with a bit more than the extra cost I had incurred.

brewerdave

[Deleted User] said:

Rule 1: Suppliers are required by Ofgem to use the SAME readings to open and close accounts.

Rule 2: The gaining supplier has the Licence obligation to manage the transfer of supply and to validate switch readings.

Rule 3: The opening/closing readings may not be the same as the ones provided by the consumer.

Rule 4: An Agreed Readings Dispute can only be raised in the following circumstances

• What should your meter reading have been at the time of your switch?
  We can only change readings used for switching (opening or closing readings), if they are significantly wrong. According to energy industry rules, your reading must have a difference of more than 250 electricity units (kWh) for an electricity reading, or a difference of 39 imperial gas units (you'll see ft3on the meter) or 125 metric gas units (you'll see m3 on the meter) for a gas reading. Anything less than this means that the estimate is sensible and could reasonably have been a reading taken around the time of your switch, and the difference to you in cost will be very small.

Unfortunately, the training given to Customer Services staff at many of the suppliers, is so poor that they believe that the Rule 4 explanation on allowed differences ,overrules Rule 1. I've had that debate on more than one occasion over the past two years !!! 

ntadmin

[Deleted User] said:

Who is in charge: simple, it is the Government. Ministerial responsibility sits with BEIS and Ofgem (a non Ministerial Government Department) issues, inter alia, Supply Licences. Your post suggests that the switching process is broken: given that many hundreds of thousands* of switches take place every month a few posts on MSE do not suggest that there is a widespread switching problem. There is no need to fix something that isn’t broken. 

As I posted earlier, all the detail is this presentation:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2018/02/as_is_switching_arrangements.pdf

* 430,000 switches in June 2021 (source Ofgem)

Apologies for miscommunication. I was not seeking to say that the whole process was broken. I was seeking to say that the process when a wrong reading is used, in particular when rule 1 is broken, is at best opaque, and at worst open to abuse.

I think, if I follow your email, you are suggesting that such a concern should be raised with Ofgem? Or perhaps with UNC on the basis or page 25 of the presentation. What’s your view? Thanks.

[Deleted User]

ntadmin said:

HDolor said:

Who is in charge: simple, it is the Government. Ministerial responsibility sits with BEIS and Ofgem (a non Ministerial Government Department) issues, inter alia, Supply Licences. Your post suggests that the switching process is broken: given that many hundreds of thousands* of switches take place every month a few posts on MSE do not suggest that there is a widespread switching problem. There is no need to fix something that isn’t broken. 

As I posted earlier, all the detail is this presentation:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2018/02/as_is_switching_arrangements.pdf

* 430,000 switches in June 2021 (source Ofgem)

Apologies for miscommunication. I was not seeking to say that the whole process was broken. I was seeking to say that the process when a wrong reading is used, in particular when rule 1 is broken, is at best opaque, and at worst open to abuse.

I think, if I follow your email, you are suggesting that such a concern should be raised with Ofgem? Or perhaps with UNC on the basis or page 25 of the presentation. What’s your view? Thanks.

By all means contact consumer.affairs@ofgem.gov.uk but don’t be surprised if you get a ‘cut n paste’ reply stating that they do not investigate individual complaints. There has to be a large number of complaints, or a super complaint from organisations such as CA, before Ofgem will step in. In this case, I don’t think they need to. You have taken out a new contract with a supplier and it is the entity that you should contact when there are any switching issues. 

ntadmin

[Deleted User] said:

By all means contact consumer.affairs@ofgem.gov.uk but don’t be surprised if you get a ‘cut n paste’ reply stating that they do not investigate individual complaints. There has to be a large number of complaints, or a super complaint from organisations such as CA, before Ofgem will step in. In this case, I don’t think they need to. You have taken out a new contract with a supplier and it is the entity that you should contact when there are any switching issues. 

Thank you, I have sent them a suggestion for improvement with a proposal for how to make the system simpler and more consumer centred. I realise it may have little chance, but if no one ever makes constructive suggestions, nothing is likely to improve :-)