Civil enforcement PCN - moved house missed PCN - LBC

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  • edited 13 June at 4:02PM
    KeithPKeithP Forumite
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    edited 13 June at 4:02PM
    Rvv said:
    @KeithP, Thanks for the clarification. I was trying to see if PCN failed to comply with any of the PoFA schedule 4 NTK clauses.
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    After reading schedule 4 of PoFA and BPA code (Jan 2018 and 2020) I'm not feeling very optimistic. BPA 21.2 (20.2 in Jan-2018 version) stood out in particular
    As you are admitting to driving in your Defence, your queries about POFA are irrelevant.
    POFA is all about transferring any driver's liability to the keeper, so as they know who was driving, that transfer is not necessary.
  • DW190DW190 Forumite
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     The more I think about this I'm certain PCN was because of that one day where system was down and GP office asked me to write it down on a notepad (this is not a confirmation bias :smile: ). I've asked GP office about 4 times now and I didn't receive a straight answer !
    Thanks,
    Rvv
    SAR the surgery.  When they realise how much work they may have to do they may make an attempt to get it cancelled.
  • edited 13 June at 6:27PM
    RvvRvv Forumite
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    edited 13 June at 6:27PM
    DW190 said:
     The more I think about this I'm certain PCN was because of that one day where system was down and GP office asked me to write it down on a notepad (this is not a confirmation bias :smile: ). I've asked GP office about 4 times now and I didn't receive a straight answer !
    Thanks,
    Rvv
    SAR the surgery.  When they realise how much work they may have to do they may make an attempt to get it cancelled.
    I'm not sure what I'd ask them in the SAR
    Can I ask for CCTV footage via SAR? Only that could prove whether the loop in my head to be right (or not) :smiley:
    Update: I found the answer to the CCTV question here

  • edited 13 June at 11:44PM
    Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
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    edited 13 June at 11:44PM
    Your defence should mention that occasion where the system wasn’t working and the GP surgery staff were noting down numberplates manually.  The Defendant suspects this parking charge was due to a combination of the C’s system failing and a breakdown in communication.  By any reasonable interpretation, clearly the GP Surgery wanted their patients’ vehicles exempted, including on days when the system or signal failed; there can be no justification for patients to be penalised by this system.  Thus, there was no legitimate interest for this Claimant to carry on pursuing this Defendant.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • edited 13 June at 8:59PM
    FruitcakeFruitcake Forumite
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    edited 13 June at 8:59PM
    It is not a penalty, so don't use that word in your defence.

    Keep pressurising the GP surgery. Contact the practice manager and the senior GP, and the chair of the Patient Participation Group if they have one (a bit like PALS at a hospital).

    Send an SAR as per the NEWBIES, mentioning this is to include the hand written note with your VRM for *specific date*. An SAR is a formal request for them to provide you with copies of all personal data they hold about you. This will be anything on paper, on computer, on their servers, storage medium, and CCTV if they have it.
    Theoretically they should send you all your medical records, which will take them months to do, but expect some push back about this. 
    In the process, just explain that all this will go away if they cancel the PCN or at lease confirm in writing that they want the charge cancelled. 
    A 'phone conversation is not worth the paper upon which it is writ, so you want to put the GP surgery's cancellation written instruction/request in front to a judge.

    You should also ask the surgery seniors why they have employed an unregulated parking company that UK MPs across all parties have referred to as rogues, scammers, and bloodsuckers, and why they agreed a contract where they are not able to cancel a PCN.


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  • RvvRvv Forumite
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    Thanks @Coupon-mad and @Fruitcake I've updated point 3 based on your feedback
    3. Every time the car park was used, the vehicle registration number was input by the Defendant in to the iPad tablet in place. The Defendant recalls one occasion where the iPad tablet was not working and the Defendant was asked by the GP reception staff to write it down on a notepad. The Defendant suspects this parking charge was due to combination of the Claimant's system failure and a breakdown in communication. The client landlord tried cancelling the Parking Charge Notice but the Claimant's IT system did not permit it. The Defendant forwarded client landlord's confirmation message to the Claimant and requested that the PCN be cancelled but the Claimant denied the request and sought the sum of £100 stated in the original notice as a gesture of goodwill. By any reasonable interpretation, clearly the GP Surgery wanted their patients’ vehicles exempted, including on days when the system or signal failed; there can be no justification for patients to be penalised by this system. The Defendant believes that continued pursuance by the Claimant amounts to harassment, abuse of process and unfair trading practice, given that the alleged breach of contract never happened.
    @Fruitcake I do have GP managers' confirmation in writing that they tried to cancel the parking charge along with my appointment time and check-in time. Is it worth raising a SAR still?
    worrying bit is that I have not managed to find a legal clause (in my limited google search) that states PCN should be cancelled if one can prove alleged violation did not happen which seems completely absurd.
    Thanks
    Rvv


  • FruitcakeFruitcake Forumite
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    Rvv said:
    Thanks @Coupon-mad and @Fruitcake I've updated point 3 based on your feedback
    3. Every time the car park was used, the vehicle registration number was input by the Defendant in to the iPad tablet in place. The Defendant recalls one occasion where the iPad tablet was not working and the Defendant was asked by the GP reception staff to write it down on a notepad. The Defendant suspects this parking charge was due to combination of the Claimant's system failure and a breakdown in communication. The client landlord tried cancelling the Parking Charge Notice but the Claimant's IT system did not permit it. The Defendant forwarded client landlord's confirmation message to the Claimant and requested that the PCN be cancelled but the Claimant denied the request and sought the sum of £100 stated in the original notice as a gesture of goodwill. By any reasonable interpretation, clearly the GP Surgery wanted their patients’ vehicles exempted, including on days when the system or signal failed; there can be no justification for patients to be penalised by this system. The Defendant believes that continued pursuance by the Claimant amounts to harassment, abuse of process and unfair trading practice, given that the alleged breach of contract never happened.
    @Fruitcake I do have GP managers' confirmation in writing that they tried to cancel the parking charge along with my appointment time and check-in time. Is it worth raising a SAR still?
    worrying bit is that I have not managed to find a legal clause (in my limited google search) that states PCN should be cancelled if one can prove alleged violation did not happen which seems completely absurd.
    Thanks
    Rvv



    If you have written confirmation of the cancellation request then I suspect the SAR would be of little use.
    You still should be escalating complaints to all the people I suggested.

    Don't worry too much about finding a precedent. Your case will turn on its own merits. It's not a violation by the way.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
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    I wrote words for you to copy but you’ve written alternatives that have less punch, IMHO.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • RvvRvv Forumite
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    I wrote words for you to copy but you’ve written alternatives that have less punch, IMHO.
    Ah - I assumed you wanted me to add it to my original version
    I do agree my version feels a bit long-winded but I did want statements on GP trying to cancel the notice and PPC wilfully ignoring the fact and denying request to cancel the PCN (to show process abuse and unfair trading) to be in there - whether these statements will help the cause - I'm blissfully ignorant on that front  :D
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
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    Abuse of process is not a phrase to throw about and doesn't really make sense.

    'No legitimate interest' means something far more important in the context of private parking so you missed the most important phrase I gave you!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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