Final demand from travel company for administration costs

squancy

Hi,
I was due to fly to Namibia in November. The 2nd half of my flight was cancelled and was unable to travel to Johannesburg either. and Carlton Leisure who I booked through didn't inform me. Despite numerous emails they finally  replied telling me I was entitled to a refund minus a £75 admin fee and I had to reply ASAP using a set sentence to say I agreed. I didn't reply to say I agreed. I contacted my credit card who refunded me, and said I was entitled to full, which they did, and the company has till Christmas day to dispute back. I received no comms at all from them.  My credit card then contacts me the other week saying I agreed to a refund with the travel company and they were taking the money back they refunded. I responded to say at no point have I agreed to a refund from them. I then go online and discover they have refunded me, minus the administration costs. I then dispute this payment, saying I did not agree to this refund. I haven't heard from the bank since and still have had no contact from the travel company. 
Today I receive a final demand letter from the travel company saying they are recovering the £75 from me and they'll take me to court if I don't pay them. I've replied asking how they're sending me a final notice for a payment they've already taken, and I've not had a first or second notice. Not sure what to do or who to contact?? Can someone help me?

eskbanker

If the Ts & Cs of your booking with Carlton allow them to charge an admin fee for processing a refund (many do) then you owe them that fee, even if you went via the chargeback route.  You can argue with their lack of communication if you like but that doesn't change the fundamental point, but if Carlton have already deducted the fee from your refund and will presumably dispute the full chargeback then they should be all square after doing so?

Edit: just looked up https://www.carltonleisure.com/terms-conditions.aspx and sure enough, it includes:

13.2 Refunds

13.2.1 There is no automatic right to a refund and, when you return an air ticket to us, we will arrange for it to be presented to the respective airline or consolidator to assess eligibility for a possible refund in accordance with the relevant airline's or consolidator's terms and conditions.

13.2.2 Air tickets returned to us for a refund are subject to an administration charge of £75 per ticket, irrespective of the number of tickets returned. You will be required to pay a per ticket cancellation charge, imposed by the airline or the consolidator pursuant to their terms and conditions.

bagand96

Second post in a week of a travel company seeking recourse after a chargeback. I did wonder if some may do this given the volume of chargebacks.

@eskbanker is correct. If the T&Cs of the contract you had with Carlton Leisure allow them to charge an admin fee for processing a refund, then they are entitled to ask for that. A chargeback doesn’t change the contract you entered into. 

Your defence, if they proceeded with court action, may be that it wasn’t clear in the T&Cs (I haven’t looked so have no idea) or maybe that it’s an unfair contract term.  No idea which way it would go in court and it would largely depend on the T&Cs. Of course, they could just be bluffing. 

CKhalvashi

bagand96 said:

Second post in a week of a travel company seeking recourse after a chargeback. I did wonder if some may do this given the volume of chargebacks.

@eskbanker is correct. If the T&Cs of the contract you had with Carlton Leisure allow them to charge an admin fee for processing a refund, then they are entitled to ask for that. A chargeback doesn’t change the contract you entered into. 

Your defence, if they proceeded with court action, may be that it wasn’t clear in the T&Cs (I haven’t looked so have no idea) or maybe that it’s an unfair contract term.  No idea which way it would go in court and it would largely depend on the T&Cs. Of course, they could just be bluffing. 

In normal times, we will routinely chase chargebacks when no right to a refund exists, including any fees and provable costs involved in chasing this (usually around £40 + court costs if necessary), if only to stop people doing this to other companies.

I wouldn't be surprised to see this become the norm over the next months as companies attempt to reclaim losses that they are rightly owed.

[Deleted User]

Agree with previous.  Third parties generally have an admin fee in t’s and c’s (they have done some work on your behalf after all).  If you consider it unrealistically high you could challenge it in court but you could end up shelling out more if the court agrees it is a reasonable amount (how many included in the booking?)    

I would leave it be and book direct in future but your choice 

tripled

Assuming it was a single booking and a leg of the journey was cancelled without a suitable alternative being offered, the OP would be entitled to a full refund. Statutory consumer rights cannot be superseded or waived by T&C's.

Assuming this is the case OP, you should notify your bank you have now received a partial refund, however £75 remains outstanding. You should also notify the travel company that you have received their partial refund and £75 remains outstanding.

If you are not refunded and the credit card company do not resolve the issue, then make a formal complaint to your credit card company (make sure you get a case number), escalating to the ombudsman if necessary.

Don't get drawn into a debate with the agency, it will just consume your time and muddy the water. If you feel compelled to respond to their threats, simply restate that you have only received a partial refund and they still owe you £75. It is highly improbable they will launch a small claim against you for £75. Even if they did, they would have to prove you owed them £75, which would be rather difficult even if you'd had a full refund, even more so if you haven't.

If on the other hand you booked the two flights separately, and you cancelled the remaining flight that was still operating, then you would indeed be subject to the agencies cancellation terms.

Voyager2002

Tedber said:

Agree with previous.  Third parties generally have an admin fee in t’s and c’s (they have done some work on your behalf after all).  If you consider it unrealistically high you could challenge it in court but you could end up shelling out more if the court agrees it is a reasonable amount (how many included in the booking?)    

I would leave it be and book direct in future but your choice 

Disagree, as Tripled explained. The travel company have indeed done some work for which they would normally be entitled to be paid, but their work was on a product that they were unable to deliver. Under these circumstances no court would support their demand for an admin fee.

eskbanker

tripled said:

Assuming it was a single booking and a leg of the journey was cancelled without a suitable alternative being offered, the OP would be entitled to a full refund. Statutory consumer rights cannot be superseded or waived by T&C's.

As per https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2020/02/coronavirus-travel-help-and-your-rights/#accordion-content-0406585740-1, the situation isn't as cut and dried as that when booking indirectly via intermediary agents, rather than directly with the actual travel provider.  The airline will have complied with its statutory obligations by refunding the agent (its customer) in full....

[Deleted User]

Voyager2002 said:

Disagree, as Tripled explained. The travel company have indeed done some work for which they would normally be entitled to be paid, but their work was on a product that they were unable to deliver. Under these circumstances no court would support their demand for an admin fee.

Mmm 🤔 don’t actually agree but we will have to see won’t we?  I don’t know if there has actually been a “test” case yet.   

mattyprice4004

We're going to see this a lot; solicitors will set up agreements with travel companies to fire out these letters for a cut of the income.

[Deleted User]

Agree Matty.  Still think would take a court ruling for third parties to be made to refund the whole amount.  The general consensus is that agents ARE entitled to charge an admin fee if it is in the t’s and c’s.  The referral about them not providing the goods doesn’t apply to agents booking flights only as they did their bit passing onto airline.  It is the airline who haven’t provided the goods and who will refund in full to whoever paid them. If booked direct, yes expect the full amount. If through a third party expect the deduction of an admin fee.  This will only change on a successful court claim which prevents “agents” from attaching an admin fee. So far it hasn’t happened.   

Not to be confused with package holidays where if any one component is cancelled then a full refund can be expected.