Uncertainty and complication with previous employer

salesman1979

So, I handed in my notice with my current employer almost 4 weeks ago. My last official day is this Friday 10th April. Due to start with my new employer on Monday 13th April.

New employer has advised that they cannot do anything for me financially and that my old employer should temporarily extend my employment and furlough me under JRS until this all blows over.

Current employer hasnt made a decision about how they will handle people who left recently, or those like me who are still employed by them but are about to finish up but they have asked me to return 2 cars I have from them on an employee scheme (I work for a car dealer, we can get 2 cars, cheap, 6 months agreement, paid directly from wages but have to be returned if you leave regardless of how long is left on the contract). I have pointed out that one car is used by my dad who lives 200 miles away and the other by me and my wife who need it as she is a key worker and I use it to get her to and from work each day. I suggested that I should keep mine at the very least as I would expect them to retain me as an employee as per JRS. They havent responded to that.

Now I have spoken to my wife and my dad, both are pointing out how returning these cars regardless of what happens doesnt sound like an essential journey. Firstly my dad is 60 and is high risk (stroke), that aside, if he made the 200 mile trip here with the car I would then have to make a 400 mile round trip to get him home. His car isnt being used, he literally hasnt left the house since lockdown was imposed.

Whats everyones thoughts? Asking me to return the cars after our conversation about extending my employment sort of feels like they wont be doing that as ultimately it is down to their discretion. They said initially they felt that retaining or rehiring leavers would be a manipulation of the JRS but given Martin Lewis recent campaign and announcement that it is something they are now considering but have yet to make any decision on.

Jeremy535897

You knew you would be returning the cars to your current employer when you left them, per your third paragraph. Are you expecting them to let you continue to use the cars after they rehire you? Given that they are only rehiring you for your benefit, not theirs, that seems optimistic. The issue they raised that you mentioned in your final paragraph was addressed in the revised guidance issued on 4 April, at least in part, but they are still being generous. If your wife can legally drive, the logical solution would be to drive to your father's house with her, and then you each drive one car back (subject to insurance cover). If you are concerned about whether the journey is a necessary one, you can talk to the police first. A more interesting question is whether it would count as working for your employer, and thus be in breach of furlough conditions, but the danger with running either of these arguments is that your employer cuts its losses, refuses to rehire you, and sends the bailiffs for the cars.

7Phil

I had a similar thought as @Jeremy535897 in that I was a little confused why you are leaving it so late to deal with the return of the cars but I held off posting that as I was not sure if I was being insensitive. This to me does seem like a secondary issue and one that you would have been expecting anyway. So, i too am not sure why you've left this issue so late to deal with.

Primary issue is that of your job. Given the circumstances I would do everything I could to hold on to my current job. That's the first action you need to take. I recommend you write a letter now, or first thing tomorrow formally asking to withdraw your notice to leave. Take it to your employer and discuss it all. You may be able to be furloughed and I would appeal to all employers to do so if they are able. As you have said; they are yet to get back to you with a decision so you might need to sit tight until they seek the advice they need in order to make promises to you.

Lets say they agree to keep you on but furlough you until the end of the scheme. Your situation with the cars is a little complicated and there are no real direct rules that tell you what to do in this circumstance (like the thousands and thousands of other different/unique circumstances other people will find themselves in). I doubt you will find the government will go to the lengths of setting out the rules for every scenario. They will leave it up to the employer and employee(s) to negotiate fairly with each other.

If things do not go in your favour and your argue your case fairly with the employer but they dig their heels in then you will remain liable to return the cars at the deadline. You might need to juggle that, or the employer might deem it necessary to send a driver to collect the car as an alternative to making your Dad make the journey to return in, etc. 

I hope for your family's case it doesn't get to that though.

salesman1979

I contacted them to ask what they wanted me to do about the cars given the current situation. My dads car is coming to the end of the 6 month contract anyway, mine is early on in the agreement so if they agreed to withdraw my notice to leave then yes I would expect to keep my car as I am still an employee and it is within the contract and I would happily continue paying for it. My contract allows me a company car, I opted out in favour of a scheme car which they have been pushing us into as it is financially better for them to go down this route. My dad has always brought his car to me at the end of contract and then picked up his new one and drove it home. I hadn’t even considered how essential the journey may or may not be until I spoke to my wife and my dad about it today. I had, stupidly, assumed that my dad would just Drive it here and I would drive him home.

Dads car is my issue. More than happy to stop using it however they have no dealers local to him that it could be returned to. I thought maybe we could send the keys to them so they know it is not being used but then that leaves them having to do a 400 mile round trip to collect it. Alternatively we send them the keys but once this blows over they give me a key and I go get it for them (would just get the train up). That scenario requires me to be an employee for insurance purposes though as once the car belongs to them again I could drive it as an employee of theirs.

Me getting up there now to collect it is a problem. Yes my wife drives and yes she is insured on my car however she works nights Monday to Friday and we have 5 children so a 400 mile round trip is a definite no no, definitely wouldn’t happen before Friday, realistically would have to be Sunday but wife is saying no due to the need to drag the kids up and down the country.

salesman1979

Sorry I should also point out how this scheme works. It is heavily subsidised by the manufacturers as well as the dealers. Ultimately I buy it cheap and pay the write down averaged over 6 months. It is financially better for them to get a car back at the end rather than early on as a car under 6 months old would be priced higher than a similar ex demonstrator or pre reg which attracts additional support from the manufacturer.

Jeremy535897

I think then that you will have to point out to them the problems you face and ask what they want to do.

7Phil

Thanks for further clarifying the situation. It sounds like you are making best efforts to find a viable solution and have assessed options fairly.
I agree that taking the kids on a 400 mile round trip is a terrible idea... They wouldn't even be able to actually get out of the car to see their Grandad under these health guidelines. Barely even be able to run around in a park for a half hour...

If push came to shove then maybe the idea of him driving it back (in isolation) and you doing a round-trip to drop him home would be the only viable option but even that would depend entirely on his fitness and ability to drive down in isolation and similarly you doing the round-trip too if you could. Bear in mind the needs for stops and the risk that carries - as well as the risk of a breakdown and the risk that carries as well.
I think you definitely need to put everyone's health and safety first before what's happening with the cars.

Not sure if the above answers your questions on what to do other than maybe give you some moral support that you've explained your situation fairly and I hope your employer will see it the same way. 

I think the fact your employer is dwelling on it is probably good news? They might just need to take time to understand the situation from their side and get back to you.
Let us know how it goes.

salesman1979

My dad doesn’t seem keen at the prospect of driving it down and obviously don’t want to pressure him given the circumstances. I would be ok with doing the round trip to take him home, it’s just getting him here in the first place is going to be the struggle.

 My employer wanted to open for business as usual after the lockdown was announced. They eventually relented but only after some backlash from staff. So I don’t have a whole lot of confidence in them “doing the right thing”.  I have also been quite outspoken when they have treated people unfairly in the past, but I also sold more cars than anyone else in the dealership in 2019 so whilst I have done a good job for them, they probably aren’t too bothered about me leaving either.

3 high performing sales staff have left in the last 12 months, all due to becoming increasingly frustrated and unhappy with changes made over the years. Not once has there been any attempt to retain any of them nor have any of their reasons for leaving been addressed. For a company who was once “best company to work for” they seem to have completely disregarded staff satisfaction in recent years. 

salesman1979

I suppose my stance on this is you look after me (which won’t cost you a penny) and I’ll help you out by collecting the car for you once this is over. You can have the keys now so you know it’s not being used. 

Or, do nothing to help me which in my opinion would be morally reprehensible of you and the car being 200 miles away sounds like a you problem.

That makes me sound like a w****r doesn’t it?

7Phil

Totally agree with you if you don't feel comfortable getting your Dad to drive it down. If you assumed he would have anyway in normal days then it would still be debatable in this new climate. No one really knows how this has been developing each day so can't blame you there.

Still think the issue of your job is the biggest issue. Maybe things will fall in line after that is known?

Sounds sad they are letting the business head in the direction you describe it.
Keep fighting the good fight.

salesman1979

My dads issue with driving it down (and me then doing a 400 mile round trip) is not health related, it’s to do with breaching the lockdown. They can’t sell the car, they’re closed, it will just sit there for who knows how long.

Sadly the cars are the only thing I can really figure out with them. The job/rehire/withdraw notice thing really is in their court, I doubt there’s anything I could say or do that would persuade them either way with that.

My new employer has offered me a company car that I could collect from them, luckily they’re not far from where I would return these cars to so being without a car isn’t a big issue but it would mean the waters are very much muddied at that point as contractually I can’t work for another dealer, so if current employer did decide to rehire me next week then I’ve now created another problem for myself.