Is my evidence is strong enough to win in the court?

sheriff_Majk

Good morning all,

I hope that I would be able to find some help on this forum.

In the beginning I want to state that I have spent many hours reading many posts, articles etc. on the internet (including this forum) before I have decided to register and ask for additional advice.

I have been ticketed by PCM on private residential unit where I am currently living (I am private tenant). It was second time when I got ticket from them in short period so I decided to not pay and ignore them (first time as newbie I paid them money after they rejected my appeal - basically I was scared of cost increase and I did not have idea about forums like this with so many valuable contents).
Now, I am on the stage when I have received first letter from TRACE Debt Collectors with standard additional 60£ added (yes I know that there is still few more letters to come which I can ignore before I will receive [or not] official papers from court)
Looking for all the tips from powerful internet I have decided to collect my own evidence way ahead before and not wait until last minute.
So far I have saved all the photos, letters and in addition I have contacted with Building Management whom also advised me to do not pay and this is where it is becoming interesting. The BM informed me that they served them (PCM) notice 18 months ago and according to this, PCM do not have any right for issuing tickets at this development (in fact no one has at the moment). I need to point that PCM signs are still fitted on site. It all sounds very dodgy and god knows why they are still ticketing people, in fact they still making money there as I trust that most of the people pay them straight away (like me on first time).
I got official email from Building Management sent to PCM lately with all details including my case and request to cancel my ticket and all the others as well. I must say that I was relying on Building Management advise and now I am a little bit lost if they are trustworthy. I must admit that they are not the best as I was chasing them for a while to get this email but on the other side they might saying truth and whole miscommunication/fault is on PCM.

All above sounds like serious matter, do you think that they (PCM) could be so irresponsible with such things like contracts with their customers?

The main question is, do you think that email (which I have from Building Management) would be a strong evidence to win case in court?

What other evidences would you recommend to gather?

I know that some of you will say to WAIT for further letters as I have not received paper from court yet however I am taking steps ahead to save stress and make sure there will not be any point missed when I start writing my defence. Also I hope that my thread would give some tips for some other people (I know that every story looks the same on the first line but sometimes small things create totally different point of view).

Best Regards
Sheriff_Majk

PS:
I have two BACKUP plans worth of introduction :
1) I have sold my car on the day when I got ticketed. I have signed transaction contract/receipt between me and new owner with date (not time) included. I could say that I was not anymore owner (Registered Keeper) of that car anymore as it has been sold on that day. Would you give it a go ?
2) On the time of incident I had a permit in the car but it was not fully visible (I have photos). You really have to be Traffic Inspector working for one of those thefts to ticket someone for that small detail - my car was well known there (always parked in the same place) and it is hardly to believe that every day you have different guy doing patrol.

fisherjim

If they didn't have a contract on the day they issued the charge then it would be thrown out and they would be stupid to try court, but they are scammers that will try to intimidate you with threats anyway.

sheriff_Majk wrote: »

PS:
I have two BACKUP plans worth of introduction :
1) I have sold my car on the day when I got ticketed. I have signed transaction contract/receipt between me and new owner with date (not time) included. I could say that I was not anymore owner (Registered Keeper) of that car anymore as it has been sold on that day. Would you give it a go ?

So you would lie and get another person involved to face your problems for you, and risk prison for lying in court?

Umkomaas

Full name of parking firm please, too many using similar acronyms.

The email will help in your defence. There are no guarantees in the small claims court.

You're not at court stage at the moment, just debt collector stage so you'll need to defend as per the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #4.

Come back if you receive a Letter of Claim or court papers from the Northampton CCBC.

1) I have sold my car on the day when I got ticketed. I have signed transaction contract/receipt between me and new owner with date (not time) included. I could say that I was not anymore owner (Registered Keeper) of that car anymore as it has been sold on that day. Would you give it a go ?

And potentially throw the new owner under the bus instead of you? Hmmm? :think:

The_Deep

If the ticket was issued at your place of residence, how/why would the new owner of the vehicle be responsible? Read this

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]What does your lease/AST say about parking? Does it mention the need to display a permit? If not then it may take primacy over the self serving TnC of the scammer, and interfere with your lawful right to “quiet enjoyment” of your property, possible an offence under The Landlord and Tenants Acts.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT]

sheriff_Majk

fisherjim wrote: »

If they didn't have a contract on the day they issued the charge then it would be thrown out and they would be stupid to try court, but they are scammers that will try to intimidate you with threats anyway.

Sounds unbelievable right? If this statement is correct, that means that they were acting illegally for last 18 months. This is what I have been told by Building Management. I am wondering why PCM is acting so irresponsible in relations with their customers, perhaps there is a deeper background in that case and this what I want to find out.

Coupon-mad

If you get evidence, report PCM to the KADOE complaints team of the DVLA and tell them you have started with them, and not the IPC, because no-one in their right mind has any confidence in the IPC as a Trade Body, except their fee paying members.

sheriff_Majk

fisherjim wrote: »

So you would lie and get another person involved to face your problems for you, and risk prison for lying in court?

Well, I would not say lie in court, just not sharing all the facts - this was advised by a friend. The whole point of bringing this over was to get them down to the court and use this argument against them and win the case. Simpy saying make them pay and waste all this time and effort for nothing. If they would like to reclaim it from new registered keeper, they will have to start whole process again and I strongly doubt that they will do it so. I trust that we can all agree that those companies should be in prison for many lies told but they are above the law in many cases. We can skip that point, and I would prefer to focus on the main evidence, this was just loose thoughts and I appreciate your feedback.:beer:

sheriff_Majk

Umkomaas wrote: »

Full name of parking firm please, too many using similar acronyms.

The email will help in your defence. There are no guarantees in the small claims court.

You're not at court stage at the moment, just debt collector stage so you'll need to defend as per the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #4.

Come back if you receive a Letter of Claim or court papers from the Northampton CCBC.


And potentially throw the new owner under the bus instead of you? Hmmm? :think:

PCM states for Parking Control Management.

I know It is very early stage, but like I mentioned I do not want to leave this for very last minute. I prefer to do as much as I can now when I have some free time to gather all evidence and necessary information.

Regarding "throw the new owner the bus" I clarified myself in post above, this is not the main point just loose thoughts and I will not go that way as I trust that I have really strong and legal evidence in my hands. However it is always good to hear someone else opinion. Thank You for cold shower.

sheriff_Majk

@The Deep

You are right, I will get myself a copy of lease agreement and look into it. The only problem is that I am private tenant, so I am just wondering if it would be better to get it from my landlord or perhaps ask Building Management for it.

Moving forward :

Is the lease agreement giving a right and power to specified company to act on the land?
As far as I know PPC's are usually contracted by land owners or companies working on theirs behalf. This contract can be withdrawn at any time like any other contract with gardener, cleaner, handyman etc. Please tell me if I am wrong.

Regarding contacting MP, How would you advise to do it? Should I send him a formal letter and mark all my points and concerns with evidence attached?

I love your idea about bringing them down to the bottom and open legal claim against them. They will get what they deserve. But I guess I will have to hire some solicitors as my knowledge about the law is very basic. What do you think about this idea?

Together we stand, divide we fall - every little helps :beer:

sheriff_Majk

Coupon-mad wrote: »

If you get evidence, report PCM to the KADOE complaints team of the DVLA and tell them you have started with them, and not the IPC, because no-one in their right mind has any confidence in the IPC as a Trade Body, except their fee paying members.

I want to verify this information as I have not heard about KADOE before and when I "googled" that name it showed me company which is dealing with registered keeper data .

How contacting them would help my case? Do they have any additional powers?

To clarify that we are thinking about the same thing :
You are advising me to report my case to KADOE with my "key" evidence, which is an email from Building Management, right? (it is not regarding the "backup" story about selling the car and new registered keeper, is that correct?)

Coupon-mad

KADOE (Keeper at the Date of Event) is not a company, it is the rules the DVLA use:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/76524155#Comment_76524155

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/driver-and-vehicle-licensing-agency/about/complaints-procedure