Item not received + user now unregistered = Out of pocket

HOUSEQUAKE

I have bought a notebook computer from eBay which I didn't receive.

On the day my funds cleared Paypal, the user became unregistered with eBay.

I began a dispute with Paypal which escalated into a claim as the seller still refused to reply.

I have now won my claim but have only been awarded 10% of what I have lost, Paypal say I have to pursue the seller for the balance, despite me having an email from them informing me that the funds were on hold and I would get them back if the claim was decided in my favour.

I can see in my Paypal account that the transaction was reversed for what looks to me like the full amount so, who has the rest of my money - the seller or Paypal?

Regards

Zebedee69

You have been duped....... Sorry mate! Did you get an address or anything from the seller? That would make tracking this guy down and shaking him upside down for the money easier!

Woo id be well impressed if this happened to me (Not!) I hope you have some way of tracking him down though..... Thats half the battle......

codger

OP:

What was the level of PayPal buyer protection on this item??

HOUSEQUAKE

At the time of buying I was apparently covered for £500 - still not enough to cover what I laid out but I had done my usual research (checked out feedback, previous sales etc) and felt comfortable with the level of rapport I had built up with this !!!!!!.

Paypal have awarded me £150...which is 10%

Paypal will not give me his details just like eBay!

Feel quite sick actually.

Time2Go_25

What is Paypals reason for not giving you the £500

codger

OP: I've not come across PayPal paying out a percentage claim unless the maximum protective cover is less than the transaction value -- which in this case, it would amount to one-third, not one-tenth.

Have you contacted your CC issuer about this?

PS: PayPal's relevant T&Cs are:

PayPal Buyer Protection Policy – Our program to reimburse Users for losses for up to:

1. £500 (“Top Tier” amount) for eligible items purchased on eBay; and
2. £150 (“Basic Tier” amount) for all other eligible items purchased on eBay

Only registered PayPal customers who have Accounts which are not subject to any restriction or limitation by PayPal are eligible for reimbursement.

eBay Items Eligible for PayPal Buyer Protection. Every item on eBay (except Live Auctions and vehicles) that meets the above requirements is eligible for PayPal Buyer Protection up to £150 (Basic Tier amount), but items are only eligible for PayPal Buyer Protection up to £500 (Top tier amount) (and should be identified as eligible items in the eBay listing) if:

1. The seller's eBay feedback rating is at least 50;
2. at least 98% of the seller's eBay feedback is positive;
3. the seller has a Verified Premier or Verified Business Account in good standing; and
4. PayPal is listed as an acceptable payment method;

Buyer Protection Policy Benefits. If we grant a Claim under the Buyer Protection Policy, we will reimburse you in the currency of the original PayPal payment, up to the maximum payout listed.

1. If you timely file a Dispute and then escalate it to a Claim, and we do not complete processing of that Claim until after your credit card issuer’s imposed deadline for filing a Chargeback or after your bank’s deadline for filing a dispute, and you recover less than the full amount you would have been entitled to recover from the credit card issuer or the bank, we will reimburse you for the remainder of your loss (minus any amount you have already recovered from the seller or any other buyer protection Policy).

The fact that PayPal is providing cover only to £150 and not £500 would suggest that this has nothing to do with percentage refunds but the difference between 'Basic Tier' and 'Top Tier'.

In that case, I'd expect PayPal to have advised you that you were wrong in thinking £500sworth of protection applied to that listing -- and then I'd expect you to have gone back to them with a copy of the listing showing that the £500 cover was indeed there.

If you haven't done so, then you certainly need to do so now.

brettcta

this is no help at all, but i can't honestly believe people shell out like £1,500 on ebay for an item they haven't seen.

HOUSEQUAKE

I recvd an email from PP as follows:

Thank you for contacting us in relation to the status of your Buyer
Complaint

From researching your account history, I can see that your issue has been
resolved. This case was decided in your favour and refund for the amount of
£150.00 GBP refunded to your account. As stated within the PayPal User
Agreement, the PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy does not guarantee recovery of
your funds, and recovery is done on a best effort basis. The amount
refunded to you represents the total amount PayPal was able to recover from
the seller's PayPal Account. Although the claim is closed, the dispute is
noted in the seller's account records, and the seller will need to complete
the refund to you if he/she wishes to continue the use of PayPal's service.

This doesn't explain why, in my PP account overview, I can see a reversal for the full amount?

So what has the seller got?

He's kept his sodding notebook, I've given him nearly £1600, after PP have sent him a few 'naughty boy' emails, they have taken £150 back and now I have to pursue him for the rest?

Something isn't right.

Codger: I wasn't saying that PP pay out on percentage terms, simply that all I have been granted back is a tenth of what I've payed/been duped out of. Also, once the seller became unregistered, the purchase protection dropped to £150...convenient?

I can now not get back any information from eBay regarding this purchase, it has been cancelled.

HOUSEQUAKE

brettcta wrote: »

this is no help at all, but i can't honestly believe people shell out like £1,500 on ebay for an item they haven't seen.

Thanks! The notebook costs £2500 new.

The seller had been moving gold Krugerand at 4K a go on eBay before I had decided this would be a legitimate purchase.

Like I said, he had good feedback, no problems/bad comments, had been a member for about 5 years and had been selling some expensive items.

codger

OP:

I'm really sorry about this, but it looks as though this was dealt with under Buyer Complaint policies (best effort funds return) and not Buyer Protection policies (funds return up to basic tier £150, to top tier £500).

This would've been because the item wasn't actually offered with £500 Buyer Protection, hence PayPal's stipulation in its T&Cs:

"PayPal’s Buyer Complaint Policy covers goods that are purchased and not delivered, and goods purchased on eBay and paid by using PayPal that are “significantly not as described”. For payments relating to eBay transactions, this Policy may apply if the buyer complaint is ineligible for coverage under PayPal Buyer Protection. Buyer disputes must be filed within 45 days of the payment and, even if the buyer’s claim is justified, the buyer will receive a recovery only if there are funds in the seller’s account. RECOVERY OF YOUR CLAIM IS NOT GUARANTEED."

(The caps are PayPal's, by the way, not mine. I've simply highlighted the appropriate text section in red.)

PayPal's position, then, is that the item was not sold with PayPal protection because the seller wasn't eligible, and so has been dealt with outside the protection policy and settled by PayPal in the form of a payment of £150.

Of course, none of this helps you one little bit -- other than the fact that you can now appreciate PayPal's position in this matter.

Hopefully you paid by credit card, in which case you need to get onto your cc company ASAP under the terms of Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act.

If you didn't pay by credit card and, as seems to be the case, the £1,600 item was not covered by PayPal's £150 or £500 Buyer Protection, then sadly, your only recourse is to civil action against the seller.

Sorry not to be more positive -- but perhaps soolin can draw on an infinitely greater depth of knowledge than I'll ever have and advise???

* whoops, sorry housequake, should've said: the protection value in a listing isn't a moveable feast and PayPal know that. If the listing said £500 PayPal Buyer Protection at the time of your purchase then that's that: PayPal's explicit (not implicit) endorsement of the listing in the form of the £500 protection policy would have been fundamental to your decision to undertake the transaction. You definitely need to take that up with PayPal: an after-the-fact revision of protection offered at the moment of purchase is no protection at all -- though if the seller became "unregistered" with eBay, then I'm baffled as to how there'd be any association with PayPal at all????

brettcta

HOUSEQUAKE wrote: »

Thanks! The notebook costs £2500 new.

The seller had been moving gold Krugerand at 4K a go on eBay before I had decided this would be a legitimate purchase.

Like I said, he had good feedback, no problems/bad comments, had been a member for about 5 years and had been selling some expensive items.

i've got an aston martin DB9 if you want one? yours for £600