Is it fair or unfair?

jyaseen786

Story for you all told to me for advice for someone else in a awkward position...

So my friend, "Driver" and "registered keeper", recently went to Star City Birmingham.

Parked up, went to eat and returned back to the car and drove to the hotel. On getting back to the hotel he noticed stuffed inside the window wiper he had recieved a PCN from Total Carpark Management Ltd (IPC member). PCN reason was that he was parked in a disabled bay.

My friend went right back to star city and saw the parking space he was in. He's somewhat unsure of which parking bay he was parked in, hes narrowed down the parking spot 2 adjacent bays. One has no disabled bay markings or any disabled bay board/post signage. Other has a very faint and worn out disabled bay sign that looks significantly deteraited and also there is no disabled bay board/post signage.

My friend went to star city in the evening (PCN was issued after 9pm). It is possible that he may have been parked in the disabled bay but because the markings are so poor and the fact that there is no lighting in the evening time at the venue, he could have parked in the disabled bay but entirely accidental.

My friend has checked the online weblink for photographic evidence which was provided on the PCN. Unsurprisingly there is no information available, and no photographic evidence is shown.

He feels somewhat confused, partially feels it was an honest mistake. He doesnt have in possession a blue badge, but feels upset that he may have taken advantage of a parking space that could have been used by a disabled user.

tough call, i dont know what to advise him. Hes not sure if he is being treated fairly or unfairly. £60 if paid within 14 days, £100 if paid after this period. Still a lot of money, and its not really clear cut.

advise anyone? Is that fair PCN or unfair PCN?

I think if he was parked in the disabled bay, albeit poor sigange and non-existent lighting in evening he should kinda pay maybe?

At same time, he isnt even sure if he was even parked in the disabled spot or not- and with no photographic evidence (which should be online, but isnt). Its difficult to say hes responsible.

let me know your thoughts.

The_Deep

It is neither fair or unfair until a judge decides. Until that time it is a disputed invoice by an ex clamper for damages for the harm they allege they suffered as a result of an alleged breach of contract. On no account should he pay the PPC a penny unless a judge so orders. IMO it is a scam but the Supreme Court has decided that it may not be.

Nine times out of ten of these tickets are scams so consider complaining to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies

jyaseen786

I definitely agree that the whole thing is a scam. However, is the damages really to the ex-clamper or disabled drivers?

My friend is somewhat unsure- and so am I to be honest. I havent found a post where someone has parked in a disabled bay without a BB. With no evidence, I am inclined to suggest that he appeal the PCN once the NTK comes through the post. But if there is no evidence available now, and there is evidence that appears later- would that warrant TCM acting unethically (ironic given the entire establishment is unethical).

Fruitcake

Your friend should read the sticky thread for NEWBIES, then send the appeal template in blue they will find there. It should be sent unedited, from the keeper.

The rest of the NEWBIES explains what to do if/when it is rejected. They should get pics of the site and signage in the same light conditions as the time of the alleged event. Ground markings form part of the signage and thus are an integral part of any alleged breach of contract.

What happened when the friend complained to the landowner?

They should also complain to their MP about this unregulated scam.

Parking scammers are, well, scammers and your friend will not be treated in a fair or reasonable manner, even though it seems the driver made a small error due to inadequate bay markings. They should not feel bad about this. It was not a deliberate attempt to misuse a disabled bay.

MistyZ

Agree with Fruitcake ....

Your friend should complain to the landowner. It might be as well to include photos of the state of the disabled bay as well as telling it like it is, i.e. that they are not sure whether the driver parked in it or not.

And if they do decide that they'll fight this in court if necessary, photos of the bay markings, signage etc. as they are now could be very useful as the PPC have 6 years to take this to court and a lot could change in that time.

The_Deep

However, is the damages really to the ex-clamper or disabled drivers?

I do not understand, please clarify.

Is your friend disabled? He does not have to have a BB to fall into that category. Please read this WRT PCNs and disabled motorists.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/reasonable-adjustments-a-legal-duty/reasonable-adjustments-a-legal-duty

If your friend is not disabled he can still be this. Read how to in the stickies/FAQs b

jyaseen786

Thanks guys- appreciate the advice. I will be sure to pass it onto the Keeper. Photos will get taken tonight. and will advise to follow the advice on the newbies page, and wait for the NTK.

Fruitcake

jyaseen786 wrote: »

Thanks guys- appreciate the advice. I will be sure to pass it onto the [STRIKE]driver[/STRIKE] keeper. Photos will get taken tonight. and will advise to follow the advice on the newbies page, and wait for the NTK.

I have corrected your post for you.

The appeal comes from the keeper and nobody else should be involved.

jyaseen786

Thanks Fruitcake- edited my own post as well.


So heard from my friend that he has accessed the online portal for TCM, although stated on the PCN there is however, no photographic evidence available to view online. No surprise there.


I have advised my friend to follow the newbies comments and wait for the NTK in the post.


Let the waiting game begin.

jyaseen786

So a parking charge notice has been delivered to the registered keeper of the vehicle.

The newbie section states that the NTK should arrive between day 26 and day 58, but this has been dated less than 6 days from incident date and received on day 10 from incident date. Does this matter?

The NTK also comes with pictures, quite clear that the driver parked on a disabled bay, albeit the markings are still worn out.

I feel like there’s something weird about the pofa section. They have referenced it but there’s no specific quote per say. It says;
“we now request this amount is paid using one of the payment methods described overleaf. If within 28 days we have not received full payment or driver details, under schedule 4 of the protection of freedom acts 2012, we have the right, subject to the requirements of the act, to recover the parking charge amount that remains unpaid from the keeper of the vehicle.”

Because of the picture, the keeper has urged the driver to pay up. Any advice?

Umkomaas

On getting back to the hotel he noticed stuffed inside the window wiper he had recieved a PCN from Total Carpark Management Ltd (IPC member). PCN reason was that he was parked in a disabled bay.

The newbie section states that the NTK should arrive between day 26 and day 58, but this has been dated less than 6 days from incident date and received on day 10 from incident date. Does this matter?

If there was a PPC ticket attached to the windscreen they should not have accessed the registered keeper details from the DVLA until such time as the driver has had the opportunity to respond to the windscreen ticket - at least until day 28 after the parking incident.

They had 'no reasonable cause' (use those words, they have specific meaning) to access the RK's data so early, and as such they will have breached GDPR (DPA) regulations and their KADOE contract with the DVLA.

So the RK (not the driver) must complain bitterly to the DVLA about this and ask they investigate and issue correctional sanction points to the PPC.

ccrt@dvla.gov.uk (or) KADOEservice.support@dvla.gov.uk

Once the DVLA have pronounced, the RK should consider suing the PPC for the breach of GDPR in unlawfully accessing their personal data.

Lots to go at here.