CEL CCJ - Company car wrong address

BuzzyB

Thank you for all your posts on this forum!

I have been searching through the various threads for the past week and although there are a huge amount of great advice (read the Newbies, Edna Basher etc. as well) but unable to find a case similar to mine. (apart from maybe the recent case of Clare237)


Sorry it’s a very long story!

I had a private lease car through my employer salary sacrifice scheme for the past 3 years. (Contract is between me and Employer and not directly with Lease Company)

I received an email back in April 2018 from my Fleet Manager advising me that they were making a deduction from my salary due to a PCN from CEL. The PCN was dated 19/01/2018 (3 month ago)
I disputed that it was such a long time ago and I was not aware of anything but I was told that the paperwork was sent to me directly. As I had not received anything I ask her if she could check what address the lease company had for me.

It turned out it was an old address dating back to the time when I first ordered the car in Aug 2015. I moved house shortly after (Sep 2015) and I was also on maternity leave at the time.
The car was delivered in Dec (still on maternity) so I gave both the fleet manager and Lease company my new address for the delivery.

When I returned back to work in Feb 2016, I updated my home address on my employers the HR portal.

I moved house again in March 2017 and again updated my new home address on my employers HR portal.

I had no idea that I had to advisee the leasing company directly and actually in the contract the only mention regarding keeping your address up to date refers to the Employers self service site (the only such self service site that exists for keeping addresses up to date is the HR portal - I queried this with the Fleet Manager at the time but didn't get an answer)

Anyway I was under the impression that they PCN was already paid and as it has been such a long time there was nothing I could do about it so I moved on. (Made sure Lease company had current address at this point)


In Oct 2018 however I received another email from Fleet Manager advising me of another PCN from CEL again for same location dated 14/03/2018 (7month ago).


Again I was told all paperwork was sent to me directly (still wrong address as it was before April 2018 when Lease company updated my current address)

Only at this point I realised that the Fleet Manager actually saying that I was responsible for paying the PCNs myself. The deduction from the salary was only and admin fee imposed by the lease company. (Contract says they only charge and admin fee if they can't nominate a driver and have to pay the fine immediately - contradiction as they are saying I have to pay myself but they charge an admin fee anyway for not being able to nominate me...) Admin fee was charged on both occasions.

At this point I checked the outstanding on the PCNs on CEL's website and the first one had a balance of £236 but the second one was £0...

Unfortunately as I stupidly believed I had done something wrong I did not dispute this any further with my employer at the time.

I contacted the Sport centre as I knew that they cancelled a lot of these charges for people as the car reg. machine was not very reliable at the time (consequently they even installed new ones around April/May time). However they said as this was such a long time ago they couldn’t help and also there was a new management company now who were not the same as in the beginning of 2018 when my charges occurred.

So I was a bit lost with this as I felt I had no other choice but to either pay or ignore ( I know now I should have looked at these forums and I wouldn’t be in this position now..)

Fast forward to last week. My husband run a routine credit file check and noticed that my credit rating went down to poor and subsequently we discovered the CEL has registered a CCJ against me at my old address of which I was blissfully unaware of. (this was 22/02/2019 – only missed 30 day deadline by 5 days:-(

Since then I have done a lot of research to see what I can do. I also went through my lease contract and realised that in the contract in fact it states that all fines are paid by employer and they will deduct from salary. (Someone must have paid the second PCN as it has a £0 balance and was definitely not added onto the first one; just waiting for feedback from Fleet manager as it wasn’t’ t me who paid it...)

So it seems that employer/lease co handled these PCNs poorly, Even if the lease company named me as the day to day keeper the contract states otherwise. And also the address issue seems to be again my employer’s mistake.

All this is well and good and I can prove that my employer messed up but where does that leave me with my set aside and defence?


I am hoping that on the basis that all the paperwork was sent to me to the wrong address and therefore CEL not serving notice properly I can satisfy the judge to set the CCJ aside?

By the way I have and I can prove that at the time of moving I updated my driving licence, council tax, voters registration etc. and I also had redirection for 2 years from first address and 6 months from second so CEL could have found me if they wanted to (which is what I thought would happen if they were taking this matter further)

I am just not sure that in my witness statement and draft defence what to emphasise?

I can’t see how the judge would rule that I am not liable to pay the claim if I do get a set aside as CEL has not done anything wrong as I was aware that this PCN existed (although received no demand for payment)?

Any advise would be much appreciated as I am ready to send my set aside application just need some clarification on what approach to take.

Thanks

Le_Kirk

Who is the registered keeper of the vehicle? If it is you, then you need(ed) to advise DVLA of your change of address. If it is the company, then of course, it doesn't matter.

BuzzyB

It is the company

BuzzyB

I have a CCJ from CEL registered on 22/02/19.
Although I did not received any paperwork as I believe all was sent to the wrong address I more or less know the details of the claim (asked the court)
**Applying for SAR

Is there any benefit in asking for a SAR?


I am in the process of applying for set aside but I was told that that is in itself does not stop any further proceedings. By sending for a SAR (including my address, tel number) am I not exposing myself to CEL so they can send bailiff etc. before the court date is set for set aside?

Coupon-mad

Asking for a SAR gets copies of any letters CEL sent to you at the old address, and all photos taken of the car, which helps you see the issue to defend in due course once the CCJ is set aside.

I can’t see how the judge would rule that I am not liable to pay the claim if I do get a set aside as CEL has not done anything wrong

You'd be surprised. CEL usually discontinue once a CCJ is set aside, and if not, we beat them as their cases are rubbish and well worth defending.

That's why you need the photos and letters to see what was sent/what hand they hold.

I am just not sure that in my witness statement and draft defence what to emphasise?

It's not a draft defence, it's a set aside draft 6 point order you need, plus a WS.

Search the forum for those words in bold and copy what all the other winners did!

BuzzyB

Coupon-mad many thanks for your reply!

I have now written my Draft Order and WS.

Please would you mind giving me your opinion? is this enough? or do I need to state anything else?
any shortcomings on my employer's /lease company's part?
or shall I leave that for my defence?

Should I also send a draft defence with my application?



IN THE COUNTY COURT AT: County Court Business Centre

Claim No. xxxxx

BETWEEBN:

CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LTD (Claimant)
And
XXXXX (Defendant)


DRAFT ODER


Upon reading the defendant’s application dated 06/04/2019

IT IS ORDERED that:

1. The default judgment dated 22/02/2019 be set aside.

2. Costs to be reserved.

3. Unless the Claimant serves a copy of the Claim Form on the Defendant by 4pm on WHAT DATE (IS IT 14 DAYS? FROM DATEOF APPLICATION) .paragraph 2 shall cease to have effect and the Claimant shall pay the Defendant's costs summarily assessed at £255 and the claim shall be struck out.

4. If the Claimant serves the claim form as directed in paragraph 3 the Defendant shall file and serve a defence by 4pm on AGAIN WHAT DATE?

5. Should the Claimant discontinue the Claim after the CCJ is set aside, paragraph 2 shall cease to have effect and the Claimant shall pay the Defendant's costs summarily assessed at £255 plus the Defendant's costs for attending the hearing.

6. That all enforcement be put on hold pending the outcome of the applicatioN.


IN THE COUNTY COURT AT: County Court Business Centre

Claim No. XXXXXX


BETWEEN:

CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LTD (Claimant)
And
XXXXXXX (Defendant)


WITNESS STATEMENT OF NAME XXXXX


I,NAME of ADDRESS, being the Defendant in this case will state as follows:

1. I make this Witness Statement in support of the application for an order that the Judgment in this case (Claim No. XXXXXXJudgment dated 22/02/2019) be set aside.

2. CPR 13.3 states (1) in any case the court may set aside or vary a judgment entered under Part12 if –
a) The defendant has a real prospect of successfully defending the claim, or

b) It appears to the court that there is some other good reason why –

I. The judgment should be set aside or varied; or

II. The defendant should be allowed to defend the claim


3. I learned the existence of this claim on 26/03/2019 when my husband routinely checked our credit files and discovered the default judgment being registered against me at an OLD ADDRESS, XXXXXX

4. My address changed to XXXXXXX on 06/09/2015 and again on 03/03/2017 to XXXXXXX where I have resided since.

5. A Royal Mail redirection service was in place from XXXXX TO XXXXXX from 17/09/2015 for 12 months and renewed on 24/08/2016 for a further 12 months (24 months in total)

6. A Royal Mail redirection service was in place from XXXXXXX TO XXXXXXXX from 19/03/17 for 6 months.

7. Upon discovering the judgment against me I immediately purchased a Trust Online search to find out the details of the judgment.

8. The following morning 27/03/19 I promptly contacted the County Court Business Centre via telephone and the court representative informed me that the claimant was Civil Enforcement Ltd and gave me the claimant phone number to contact for further details.

9. I telephoned Civil Enforcement Ltd immediately on 27/03/19 and was told that the parking charge notice was for a vehicle Reg. No. xxxxxx, which I was leasing through my employer’s salary sacrifice scheme at the time.

10. According to publicly available information my circumstances are far from being unique. The industry’s persistent failure to use correct and current addresses results is an unnecessary burden for individuals and the justice system across the country. This is a topical issue: I note that the Justice Minister the Rt Hon Sir Oliver Heald QC MP announced on the 23rd December 2016 a consultation and information campaign to help protect consumers from debt claims. The consultation will look at ways to better protect consumers who are sent mail to inaccurate addresses and verify addresses again before a claim is sent. The Minister added "It cannot be right that people who are unaware of debts can see their lives and finances ruined by county court judgments. That in the digital age, we must ensure companies pursuing unpaid debts make every reasonable effort to contact individuals, rather than simply relying on a letter to an old address.

11. Considering the above I respectfully request that the Court sets aside the judgment in this claim and allows 14 says for me to submit my defence.


Statement of Truth:
I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.

NAME



SIGNED

KeithP

WHAT DATE (IS IT 14 DAYS? FROM DATEOF APPLICATION) .

AGAIN WHAT DATE?

Replace those texts with xx/xx/2019.

Those are for the judge to complete.

Coupon-mad

Should I also send a draft defence with my application?

No.

At the set aside hearing it is mainly for the Judge to hear why you didn't get the claim and missed the opportunity to defend, and also you just have to satisfy the Judge that you can defend the claim (so you could take a draft defence with you as a crib sheet).

And as it's a leased car (i.e. your name was not on the V5C logbook?) an easy defence point for a start would be that the Claimant failed to serve a Notice to Hirer (lessee) to you, at all, and even the one that they might say was posted to an old address was incapable of holding a lessee/hirer liable under the only applicable law (the POFA 2012) as CEL choose not to follow that Act and would have failed on one or all of: prescribed/mandatory wording, deadline and enclosures.

Typos below:

BETWEEBN:

DRAFT ODER

BuzzyB

Thank you both! including spotting the typos (at 1am my brain couldn't function properly)


I have read up on POFA 2012 and it makes sense.


As it is a salary sacrifice car (i.e I am not the register keeper or owner - the lease company is) but the lessee is actually my employer. My contract is with my employer and not the Lease company directly...


I can't find anything specifically relating to this anywhere.


Even if we remove that complication/technicality I still don't get how the lease company was able to nominate me as the driver as there are two named drivers on the contract, my husband and me.


I will definitely ask for a SAR but should I wait for a hearing date first?


I am concerned that I will expose myself to bailiffs while the application is going through

Coupon-mad

there are two named drivers on the contract, my husband and me.

Add that to your defence points noted!

The POFA paras 13 and 14 relate to a leased car like yours, and CEL will never, ever, ever have sent a copy of anything with the NTH, so they WILL have failed to establish 'hirer liability'.

I will definitely ask for a SAR but should I wait for a hearing date first?

No, I'd definitely want to see their hand and be more informed what it's about.

I am concerned that I will expose myself to bailiffs while the application is going through

Won't happen.

And a SAR does not alert a parking firm to anything and they are not that bright.

BuzzyB

Thank for you reply again.


I will add the 2 named driver point to my WS and SAR is on it's way now.


I will keep the thread updated with any developments.


Many thanks for your input!