Britannia/BW Legal Claim Form

KeithP

jackpot_spaniel wrote: »

I was looking at the Rules & Practice Directions on the justice.gov.uk website.

Good luck with that - too complicated for me.

Put simply, there are two pertinent dates - Date of Issue and Date of Service.

Strictly speaking these refer to the issue and service of the Particulars of Claim.

Coupon-mad

You are warned that if, after 28 days,

That's not the Schedule 4 para 9 timeline, though, is it? Look at it!

Did the PCN arrive by day 15?

jackpot_spaniel

Did the PCN arrive by day 15?

Yes, unfortunately it arrived within about a week.

That's not the Schedule 4 para 9 timeline, though, is it? Look at it!

POFA states:

"28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given"

"A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales."

So, are you saying that because the PCN does not allow for that second paragraph, it does not comply with POFA?

I hope so!

lostsoul22

I'm in a similar boat due to similar frustration and also disbelief over the timeline, and difficulty getting back to the site to check for myself.
on dec 30th sunday evening i drove family to a restaurant for a meal and was told by family I picked up on the way to park in Waitrose as it was next to it; they assumed the time limit wouldnt count as it was out of hours and there was no obvious signage warning it an issue - so didnt say anything to me and I assumed i was being given good advice.

i got the initial warning letter sometime in Jan - it's not dated but it was shortly after I found out i was being made redundant which sent me spiralling and put the parking issue out of mind. roll on another month and i'm jsut about getting my brain together (I suffer from anxiety and paranoia as a result of said stressful job).
I've had a 'final reminder' also undated but received in early feb and cannot appeal via the Brittania website anymore. i've spent so long getting to grips with what is required, reading the forums and getting myself not to hide from reality that i'm too late.

I'm really struggling with all of the process. I will soon have no job and my mental health isn't in a great place for finding a new one via CV etc, let alone trying to understand all the necessaries for this issue.
I was in the carpark for 2hrs, 32 mins (17.36.08 to 20.07.40) and would happily pay a reasonable fee.
The most frustrating thing is also that i would have parked further away normally as the council carpark is long stay....grrr to taking advice.
Should I wait for the next letter before acting? or is the detail on the first letter as to what the process is? many thanks.

jackpot_spaniel

Hi lostsoul22

Sorry to hear that. I think the initial advice would be to delete your post above, as you state you were the driver amongst other details.

Your first stop should be the Newbies Thread which is 'stickied' to the top of the Parking Tickets forum - you will find all of the information you need there.

If you're still having issues, then I think the advice would be to start your own new thread, and forum members will reply to you there. It sounds like there are already some points you can argue (lack of clear signage, no dates on PCNs), so don't just pay it.

Best of luck with everything, including the job hunt. I was made redundant the other year, but it actually turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me - just keep your head up and apply for everything you can, even if you don't meet all the requirements.

Take care

Coupon-mad

So, are you saying that because the PCN does not allow for that second paragraph,

No. Look at the ACTUAL phrase they must use about the timeline. Not the second para!

jackpot_spaniel

"28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given"

This phrase?

Coupon-mad

Well yes of course. Please don't ask me to explain how that differs.

jackpot_spaniel

I just thought it was a bit of a weak argument, which is why I tried to bolster it with the second paragraph:

A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

Could something as small as not including:

beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given

really be successfully argued as a non-compliance?

I don't know, I'm not a lawyer - wish I was with all of this!

Thanks

Coupon-mad

jackpot_spaniel wrote: »

I just thought it was a bit of a weak argument, which is why I tried to bolster it with the second paragraph:

A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

That's pointless because of this fact:

unfortunately it arrived within about a week.

Could something as small as not including:

beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given

really be successfully argued as a non-compliance?

Technically yes, as it's not compliant and misleads the consumer about the statutory timeline, but not with all Judges...e.g. if your court is Manchester or Skipton where they hate PPCs, I think they'd possibly buy that.

You only have unclear signage, ANPR not synchronised/time not proven, and no landowner authority (and shooting down the added 'costs' that never existed as per all defences you see here) to go on apart from that, AFAIK. So it's a straw you might need to clutch at.