CEL Defence

Guinness123

Hi,

Long short of the situation...
April 2018
I overstayed in a 40 minute car park at a local Nisa's by 11/12 minutes and received letter after letter from CEL. I initially appealed via their website and said something along the lines of 'we were at a christening at a church a short walk from the car park (there is no parking around the church as it on a high-street type road, we got back to the car as soon as possible'. I can't remember the exact working as they don't send you a copy of what you wrote and i didnt keep it. It got declined. I don't remember whether or not I said 'I moved the car' i.e. named the driver. I've since received all the letters in order from CEL and ignored them all. I tried to get help from Private Parking Appeals in the meantime, they just kept asking for copies of the letters but I can't rely on them i've come to realise!

14th Jan:
Received Claim form and did the AOS online. I have until 14/02 i believe but need to log in to check!!

Defence:
This will be pretty straight forward, i don't necessarily have a defence I just refuse to pay £100 reduced to £60 for overstaying by 11/12 minutes. The car park does not have lines on the floor, I know that, I am going to visit it tomorrow to have a proper look at the signage.

I was going to use 'the loss of earnings vs. the time overstayed' argument, since you get 10 mins leeway so technically I only overstayed by 1-2 minutes, but I read somewhere on here that it isn't a valid argument these days?.

I have found someones defence on here which I feel mostly relates with my case, see below:

IN THE COUNTY COURT

CLAIM No: xxxxxxxxxx

BETWEEN:

Civil Enforcement LTD (Claimant)

- and -

xxxxxxxxxxxx (Defendant)

________________________________________


DEFENCE
________________________________________

1. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.

2. The facts are that the vehicle, registration XXXX, of which the Defendant is the registered keeper, was parked on the material date.

3. The Particulars of Claim state that the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or the driver of the vehicle. These assertions indicate that the Claimant has failed to identify a Cause of Action, and is simply offering a menu of choices. As such, the Claimant fails to comply with Civil Procedure Rule 16.4, or with Civil Practice Direction 16, paras. 7.3 to 7.5. Further, the particulars of the claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16 7.5 as there is nothing which specifies how the terms were breached.

4. Due to the sparseness of the particulars, it is unclear as to what legal basis the claim is brought, whether for breach of contract, contractual liability, or trespass. However, it is denied that the Defendant, or any driver of the vehicle, entered into any contractual agreement with the Claimant, whether express, implied, or by conduct.

5. Further and in the alternative, it is denied that the Claimant's signage sets out the terms in a sufficiently clear manner which would be capable of binding any reasonable person reading them. Additionally, the lay out of the car park, position of signage and geography of location is incapable of legally binding the defendant into any contract.

6. The sum pursued by the Claimant, £XXX, is manifestly excessive.

7. In summary, it is the Defendant's position that the claim discloses no cause of action, is without merit, and has no real prospect of success. Accordingly, the Court is invited to strike out the claim of its own initiative, using its case management powers pursuant to CPR 3.4.

I believe the facts contained in this Defence are true.

Name
Signature
Date

Please let me know your thoughts?
Thanks

KeithP

What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

Umkomaas

I was going to use 'the loss of earnings vs. the time overstayed' argument, since you get 10 mins leeway so technically I only overstayed by 1-2 minutes

Since Beavis, there is virtually nothing left in that argument.

And I'm not sure there is any grace period available for using a private car park when not using the facility attached to it, other than to read the signage, so if you used the grace period for this purpose you wouldn't have stayed, unless you were prepared to risk the 'penalty'.

You need other arguments.

Coupon-mad

I tried to get help from Private Parking Appeals in the meantime, they just kept asking for copies of the letters but I can't rely on them i've come to realise!

OMG.

How much money did you throw away, and you have seen their TrustPilot (including their replies to ordinary people)?

Guinness123

14th Jan 2019

Guinness123

PPA charged me £20 but reassured me that they could fight the case

Guinness123

Umkomaas wrote: »

Since Beavis, there is virtually nothing left in that argument.

And I'm not sure there is any grace period available for using a private car park when not using the facility attached to it, other than to read the signage, so if you used the grace period for this purpose you wouldn't have stayed, unless you were prepared to risk the 'penalty'.

You need other arguments.

I didn't know at the time of the grace period, I read it on here, but didn't realise it wasn't applicable to a private car park..what about the no lines in the car park? Could that be used in the defence?

Coupon-mad

Guinness123 wrote: »

PPA charged me £20 but reassured me that they could fight the case

Thought it was £19?

So...have they fought the case?!

Have you seen what their replies say on TrustPilot about people who chargeback?

Guinness123

Coupon-mad wrote: »

OMG.

How much money did you throw away, and you have seen their TrustPilot (including their replies to ordinary people)?

£20. They reassured me they could fight the case for me but I am now doing this myself. Can you suggest a defence based on the information or do you think I wont have a case?

Coupon-mad

I think you should ask them as you've paid them. Do you see no problem with it?

KeithP

Guinness123 wrote: »

14th Jan 2019

I'll assume that's the answer to this question:

KeithP wrote: »

What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

With a Claim Issue Date of 14th January, and having done the Acknowledgement of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 18th February 2019 to file your Defence.

That's two weeks away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but don't leave it to the very last minute.


When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:

Print your Defence.
1. Sign it and date it.
   
2. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
   
3. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
   
4. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
   
5. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
   
6. Do not be surprised to receive a copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to put you under pressure.
   
7. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.