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PCN from ParkingEye, hire agreement

Hi, I’ve read through this forum at length re PCNs for hire cars but with 2 kids under 4 I’m finding it a bit tricky absorbing the legal technicalities of sched 4 in layman’s terms 🙈
Parking eye state the POF Act 2012 schedule 9 (2) (f) and that they have been provided with details of hire TOGETHER WITH SIGNED COPY OF THE HIRE AGREEMENT AND STATEMENT LIABILITY but the lease company have told me that they only sent ParkingEye a company headed letter confirming my details as hirer of the vehicle and contract start and end date, not a copy of the contract......does this mean I can use this tecnicality in my favour as well as the fact that obviously they haven’t sent me a copy of the hire agreement they state they have been sent?!

Also is there a template that deals specifically with those two points? I want to get the appeal letter as accurate as possible please. So difficult trying to scour through with 2 kids climbing all over me as soon as I get on the phone or laptop!!

I’ve only got 5 days left to appeal to ParkingEye
Many thanks for any help
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Replies

  • KeithPKeithP Forumite
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    Send this appeal template linked from post #1 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread:

    forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69859059#post69859059

    Obviously change Highview to ParkingEye.
  • Thanks so much KeithP

    The PCN was due to an overstay at a retail park which the driver was unaware of having done, it was a busy December weekend, Xmas shoppers everywhere, temporary traffic lights directly outside the car park entry/exit causing endless traffic queuing to get both in and out the car park. Once inside more queues and no spaces to park. Eventually a space found but due to the stress of all that and it was pouring with rain, the driver failed to see the signs re max time permitted of 2 hours.
    Shops were really busy, long queues at tills but eventually spent £200 in total at 3 shops, over space of 2 hours 57 mins!
    Was going to send receipts to ParkingEye with the above explanation but feel it’s probably best to go on the technicality of POF Act Shedule 4 paras 13 & 14 instead as it’s got more legal stance. Do you think? Or should I include both arguments in my appeal?

    Thanks again
  • KeithPKeithP Forumite
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    No need to add anything.
    Save the 'extra' for PoPLA should it be needed.

    You really must now be reading the NEWBIES thread, link above, to better understand the game you are now playing.
  • Ok thanks, will look once the kids are in bed!

    Thanks again
  • edited 31 January 2019 at 6:27PM
    MistyZMistyZ Forumite
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    edited 31 January 2019 at 6:27PM
    Kayloujay wrote: »
    it was a busy December weekend, Xmas shoppers everywhere, temporary traffic lights directly outside the car park entry/exit causing endless traffic queuing to get both in and out the car park. Once inside more queues and no spaces to park. Eventually a space found but due to the stress of all that and it was pouring with rain, the driver failed to see the signs re max time permitted of 2 hours.
    Shops were really busy, long queues at tills but eventually spent £200 in total at 3 shops, over space of 2 hours 57 mins!

    In addition to the appeal you need to email a landowner complaint to the retail park, insisting that they cancel the charge. A manager of any of the shops should be able to tell you who owns the land or an internet search might help with that. Or if the bulk of the £200 was spent in one shop you could email their manager or better still, the CEO.

    Outline the circumstances you've given here and state that you have receipts / bank records. I guess it's unlikely that you spent cash and have chucked away the receipts, but if so, emphasise how much was spent regardless. Phrases like 'genuine customer' help, because that is what you were, much of that 2 hours and 57 minutes was used to fill their tills, so how is that an overstay in their eyes? You may draw a blank at the first try, but if so go higher up the food chain till someone cancels this thing. Don't say who was driving, use the 'royal we'.

    Which retail park? Someone here may have suggestions about who to contact.
  • Thank you, the retail park is the infamous Riverside Retail Park Chelmsford involved in the Bevis case!
    I have no idea who the landowner is, after some research I found it could have been Savills but I emailed them 3 weeks ago and have heard nothing, I also read somewhere that the park had been sold but can’t find who to! Not much comes up on Google.
    I’ll try the shops, £157 was spent in Smyths Toys and the rest in Matalan and McDonald’s so I will see if I get any help from them.
    I’ve kept all the receipts luckily so I do at least have proof.
    Thanks again, I’ll keep you posted.
  • edited 31 January 2019 at 8:30PM
    RedxRedx Forumite
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    edited 31 January 2019 at 8:30PM
    I think it was the BA Pension Fund that owned it and leased it to P.E.

    the bottom of the NEWBIES thread post #1 deals with hire and lease vehicles and has advice and links by EDNA BASHER, SO READ THAT SECTION, NOT THE BLUE TEXT SECTION


    BEAVIS lost in 3 courts over a similar overstay on that same car park, despite being a customer of STAPLES , so you would have an uphill struggle if you cannot get out of it on a technicality
  • UmkomaasUmkomaas Forumite
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    More than most, PE can be swayed by shopping receipts, especially totalling £200, so I'd add a final sentence to the template and attach copies of receipts. As long as you don't inadvertently identify the driver (especially important in view of your parallel position that PE fail PoFA) in constructing that last bit. Let us see it if you are uncertain of your draft.

    I would have thought you might have enough to tip the balance, although I wouldn't put money on second guessing a predator. :cool:
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad
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    Be careful not to give away the driver if uploading an occupant of the car's receipt.

    ParkingEye lie with their standard NTH wording, pretending they've been sent a copy of the Hire Agreement, etc.

    They haven't. And even if they had, they MUST enclose it with your NTH!

    That's how you will win at POPLA, citing the POFA para 13 and 14.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Umkomaas wrote: »
    More than most, PE can be swayed by shopping receipts, especially totalling £200, so I'd add a final sentence to the template and attach copies of receipts. As long as you don't inadvertently identify the driver (especially important in view of your parallel position that PE fail PoFA) in constructing that last bit. Let us see it if you are uncertain of your draft.

    I would have thought you might have enough to tip the balance, although I wouldn't put money on second guessing a predator. :cool:

    Thank you, I think I will include the extra detail explaining the reasons for the driver's overstay.
    I have also had an email from the retail park managing agent to say that my email has finally reached them after being sent from several pillars and posts! The managing agent for the landowner is CBRE who have passed my complaint to the relevant person to deal with parking "fines" as they call them! They have also CC,d ParkingEye in the emails so i am waiting to see how i get on down that route too.

    This is the draft for my appeal to ParkingEye, what do you think?

    Dear Sir

    Parking Charge Notice: xxxxxx Vehicle Registration xxxxxx

    I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued to me by ParkingEye as a Notice to Hirer. I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN.

    You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why ParkingEye's Notice to Hirer did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.

    Given that ParkingEye has forfeited its right to keeper liability, please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge. Alternatively, should you choose to reject my challenge, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA.

    Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.

    Furthermore, the circumstances that lead to the driver unknowingly overstaying were;
    It was a busy December weekend, Xmas shoppers everywhere, temporary traffic lights directly outside the car park entry/exit causing endless traffic queuing to get both in and out of the car park. Once inside queues continued and no spaces to park. Eventually a space found but due to the stress of all that and it was pouring with rain, the driver failed to see the signs regarding max time permitted of 2 hours.
    Shops were really busy, long queues at tills but eventually ten pounds short of £200 in total at 3 shops was spent by the driver over the space of 2 hours 57 mins! I have attached receipts as evidence of purchases.
    The PCN issued is extremely harsh on a genuine customer of the Retail Park.

    Yours faithfully

    Mr xxxx xxxx

    I will submit it once I have approval from you guys, thanks again for all your help :)
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