Hastings want to cancel wife's insurance

Integr8

Hello forum

My wife had just renewed her car insurance a couple of days ago. She noticed that the documentation was not showing a couple of claims I had during the previous year which she was sure she had declared at the last renewal. We have a car each and are named drivers on each other's policies.

Thinking everything was in order from the last policy she answered no when asked had anything changed. That was a truthful response; nothing had actually changed since the last renewal. What she had failed to do was just check the renewal documentation and assumed they already knew.

The claims I had were a glass claim in December 2015 (thieves broke window while in car park) and a theft claim in May 2016 (house was burgled for keys and car taken from outside house, recovery made after the claim was settled).

So she just contacted Hastings to correct this and was told that the underwriters no longer wish to insure me on her policy and so Hastings have "unrisked" the policy (given her 7 days to find alternate cover before cancelling the policy). The only alternative was to remove me as a named driver.

My wife got extremely upset at this as she thinks she has made a bad mistake and in fact is seeing it as being punished for being honest.

This seems particularly daft as (a) they are claims in my history not hers, and (b) claims on my use of another vehicle which have nothing to do with my risk profile as a named driver on this vehicle should not increase the risk of being a named driver on this vehicle. My own car being broken into in a car park when at work doesn't affect the risk of my wife's car being broken into when left at home (she doesn't work).

Also, my car is also insured with Hastings and these incidents have been declared on my own policy. They had to be as they were claimed against that policy!

My wife is the most honest person imaginable and while it is possible she forgot to add my claims on her previous renewal (November 2016), it's also possible she did actually inform them but it is they who have made the error. My wife is so conscientious about this sort of thing. At renewal a year ago the theft claim particularly would have been quite recent (and burglary is a traumatic event), so it's highly unusual for her to have forgotten all about it. She usually takes pains to write down all the information at renewal time. She also had entered the full details of these claims into comparison sites before renewal and (maybe naively) assumed Hastings would have the details.

Another factor which makes me wonder if it is their error, is during this renewal Hastings asked my wife if I (the named driver) still required business use. This had been put on for me as named driver on my wife's previous policy after my car had been stolen. This was so I could use her car to go to a conference. This cover was then removed as soon as I replaced that car as my wife only requires SDP cover. It's as if they have lost details from the last year's policy and reverted to details from the previous one.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. We'd like some advice. Clearly I don't want my wife to have a strike of having insurance cancelled, so I'm wondering what the options are.

(a) remove me as a named driver and live with the inconvenience until next year's renewal.
(b) remove me as a named driver, take out a different policy and then cancel this policy. This should not be the same as a policy being cancelled by them but there will I guess be a cancellation charge.
(c) complain to the financial ombudsman. It would seem reasonable and proportionate to charge an additional premium but it does not seem reasonable to refuse insurance on the basis of at worst an honest mistake.

To my mind there is a good chance it is their mistake but it will be difficult for us to prove that.

anselld

7 days to insure elsewhere, I would take that option. Hastings are a poor outfit anyway.

dunstonh

My wife got extremely upset at this as she thinks she has made a bad mistake and in fact is seeing it as being punished for being honest.

She is not being punished. However, she wasnt being honest. It was a mistake.

This seems particularly daft as (a) they are claims in my history not hers, and (b) claims on my use of another vehicle which have nothing to do with my risk profile as a named driver on this vehicle should not increase the risk of being a named driver on this vehicle. My own car being broken into in a car park when at work doesn't affect the risk of my wife's car being broken into when left at home (she doesn't work).

a) it is an event on a named driver on her policy
b) it has a lot to with her insurers as you are named on her policy and you have had two significant claim events in a short period.

The damage at the car park when at work does increase her risk. What if you had driven her car to work that day?

Also, my car is also insured with Hastings and these incidents have been declared on my own policy. They had to be as they were claimed against that policy!

You have two issues against you. Your wife has three. Your two issues plus her non-disclosure.

My wife is the most honest person imaginable and while it is possible she forgot to add my claims on her previous renewal (November 2016), it's also possible she did actually inform them but it is they who have made the error.

It is also possible that she intentionally didnt tell them and was hoping to get away with it. I am not saying that is the case but giving an idea of the possibilities that exist in the eyes of the insurer.

If you are with BT, then chances are your phone bill has a record of the numbers you have called. It shouldnt take too long to see whether that was the case or not.

Plus, if you believe your wife did phone them, then what did they tell her would happen next? her premium would have gone up. So, what was her reaction when they told her that? Whilst anything is possible, does it really sound credible?

Anyway, sorry for the long post. We'd like some advice. Clearly I don't want my wife to have a strike of having insurance cancelled, so I'm wondering what the options are.

Remove you from the policy now and go elsewhere at next renewal. You could cancel it shortly after but the cost will probably not make it worth it.

(c) complain to the financial ombudsman. It would seem reasonable and proportionate to charge an additional premium but it does not seem reasonable to refuse insurance on the basis of at worst an honest mistake.

The ombudsman have a published guide on non-disclosure and Hastings seem to be following it more generously than the FOS would expect them to do so. The FOS position allows the insurer to cancel the policy and void it from inception. That is far more damaging to both you and her (as you would have to declare it on your policy too).

I understand the need for you to support your wife but you also need to accept she made a mistake and hastings are giving a more than a generous way of sorting this out. Trying to blame others for what was probably a genuine mistake is not going to solve anything. Take yourself off the policy and deal with it at renewal or later cancellation and move on.

Sarastro

If the renewals are annual, then how can she have said nothing had changed as your' claims were less than a year ago?

That said, I'd take the 7 day option to go elsewhere too.

Integr8

Thanks for your advice. However I am not "trying to blame others". Given they seem to have lost the details about another change we definitely did make before last renewal (the temporary business use), it seems entirely possible they could have done the same with these events too. We generally do her renewals together as I pay the premiums.

It's not disputed that my wife did make the mistake of not checking the documentation thoroughly enough before this renewal. She would have assumed the events had been declared previously and so didn't check for them properly. The question is did she forget to declare it on last renewal?

Plus, if you believe your wife did phone them, then what did they tell her would happen next? her premium would have gone up. So, what was her reaction when they told her that? Whilst anything is possible, does it really sound credible?

I don't understand this. Does what sound credible? The premium would have been different on renewal anyway. As you don't know my wife I'm not offended by your suggestion she's lying. But seriously, she's the sort of person who has to be dissuaded from declaring childhood chicken pox and innumerable sniffles on pre-existing medical conditions when applying for travel insurance! If you knew her you'd realise how ridiculous any suggestion of deliberate dishonesty on her part would be.

I have read the ombudsman page on non-disclosure. I did so before posting the thread. This section particularly reads to me as the Ombudsman would take the view that Hastings should simply charge the increased premium, and that cancelling the policy seems disproportionate.

Where we decide that a consumer has not taken reasonable care but that this wasn't deliberate, we generally say the insurer should take a proportionate approach. This means that the insurer should base its approach on what it would have done if the consumer had taken reasonable care and provided the correct information.

rs65

Integr8 wrote: »

This section particularly reads to me as the Ombudsman would take the view that Hastings should simply charge the increased premium, and that cancelling the policy seems disproportionate.

Where we decide that a consumer has not taken reasonable care but that this wasn't deliberate, we generally say the insurer should take a proportionate approach. This means that the insurer should base its approach on what it would have done if the consumer had taken reasonable care and provided the correct information.

What it would have done was to not accept you so cancelling may be correct.

What did last year's documents say - did they note the claims?

I would take any option that avoids the cancellation.

dacouch

Integr8 wrote: »

Thanks for your advice. However I am not "trying to blame others". Given they seem to have lost the details about another change we definitely did make before last renewal (the temporary business use), it seems entirely possible they could have done the same with these events too. We generally do her renewals together as I pay the premiums.

It's not disputed that my wife did make the mistake of not checking the documentation thoroughly enough before this renewal. She would have assumed the events had been declared previously and so didn't check for them properly. The question is did she forget to declare it on last renewal?



I don't understand this. Does what sound credible? The premium would have been different on renewal anyway. As you don't know my wife I'm not offended by your suggestion she's lying. But seriously, she's the sort of person who has to be dissuaded from declaring childhood chicken pox and innumerable sniffles on pre-existing medical conditions when applying for travel insurance! If you knew her you'd realise how ridiculous any suggestion of deliberate dishonesty on her part would be.

I have read the ombudsman page on non-disclosure. I did so before posting the thread. This section particularly reads to me as the Ombudsman would take the view that Hastings should simply charge the increased premium, and that cancelling the policy seems disproportionate.

That quote from the Ombudsman is regarding to how an Insurer handles a claim when there is a non disclosure.

It is now common for an Insurer to cancel a policy when they discover a non disclosure (Generally via checking databases) as Insurers normally do not want customers on their books who non disclose

Aretnap

Integr8 wrote: »

This seems particularly daft as (a) they are claims in my history not hers, and (b) claims on my use of another vehicle which have nothing to do with my risk profile as a named driver on this vehicle should not increase the risk of being a named driver on this vehicle. My own car being broken into in a car park when at work doesn't affect the risk of my wife's car being broken into when left at home (she doesn't work).

That is unlikely to form part of their reasoning. Modern car insurance underwriting is done by a computer algorithm which takes a fairly limited number of variables (eg the fact that you have a theft claim and a glass claim) and comes up with a price (or doesn't) based solely on those variables with no human intervention. The algorithm isn't sophisticated enough to come up with a different price depending on whether the theft happened at your home, your work, your local supermarket or any of the million other places you conceivably have your car stolen. You won't get anywhere by arguing that you don't think that the particular circumstances of your claims mean that they indicate less risk than some other circumstances you could imagine.

If you don't like that approach and want a more bespoke price then the alternative would be to go to Lloyd's of London where you could sit down for tea and biscuits with your underwriter, chat to him in detail about your theft and attempted theft, and see whether he thinks there relevant to the risk on your wife's policy. However you would have to pay more for that sort of personalised service - a lot more than the likes of Hastings charge - so in practice nobody does it.

Aretnap

Integr8 wrote: »

I have read the ombudsman page on non-disclosure. I did so before posting the thread. This section particularly reads to me as the Ombudsman would take the view that Hastings should simply charge the increased premium, and that cancelling the policy seems disproportionate.

The Ombudsman's page as I recall is a bit vague on how the insurer should treat the policy going forwards. However their approach generally mirrors the law set out in the Consumer Insurance Act, and the Consumer Insurance Act dues survivalist give the insurer the right to cancel the policy going forwards, even in the case of careless non-disclosure. See paragraph 9 here

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/6/schedule/1/enacted

MABLE

I wonder now if claiming on my British Gas home care policy for a breakdown and not reporting it at renewal to my car insurance could under the heading of non disclosure.

Quentin

anselld wrote: »

7 days to insure elsewhere, I would take that option. Hastings are a poor outfit anyway.

She has been given 7 days notice of cancellation.


If she accepts that and goes elsewhere then she does have to disclose the cancellation to other insurers she goes to.