F&F agreed on acceptance of offer, now potentially in dispute

warby68

So based on the opening post, all that is known so far is that the vendor wants to talk about F&F and there is a 'price list' which pre-dates this sale.

OP, please don't go into this with all guns blazing as your open hostility and mistrust could easily put a vendor off. Keep an open mind until you know exactly what the vendor wants to discuss. Then its either accept, negotiate or walk away. If you come to a deal, what's included will be covered in the contract and you really would be best advised to rely on your contractual protection and not try and create some last minute option to duck out. It really doesn't work like that and isn't likely to find favour with any/many vendors.

If you then genuinely mistrust the vendor (and with a bit more evidence than you have told us so far) or don't like the way they operate, then do pull out,

Its really common for there to be some to-ing and fro-ing on the finer details no matter how the original offer/acceptance was handled. People have second thoughts all the time and sometimes take time to actually think of everything. It isn't ideal but that's the way it is.

We had a last minute issue where the vendors wanted to dig up and take two trees (I think there was some sentiment).

AnotherJoe

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

That would be my favoured option too.

Just - calmly and clearly say "My offer has now been reduced to £x - in view of vendor stating they will take the f & f. My first offer will still stand - PROVIDED they leave the f & f as agreed".

The issue with that approach, which is the logical one, is the OP has lost all trust in the vendor and believes that if he does that they will agree but then renege on the day, taking the F&F with them (hence his unworkable schemes to attempt to ensure they do leave them )

In which case walking away is really all he can do. Unless he gets them to accept a lower offer plus a private sale for the F&F payable the day after completion. This requires the vendors to trust him of course and as they seem untrustworthy they will likely not trust him.

Hence we are back to walking, unless it all turns out to have been a mistake.

copperjar

Why don't you just speak to them via solicitor or EA and say you thought your offer included all F&Fs and ask them what's going on. You are winding yourself up without having even spoken to them about it. Could be simple mistake of using previously submitted form.

If they tell you it's not the case - then you either withdraw your offer or negotiate. All this drama isn't doing you any good. You are getting stressed out about something that hasn't even happened yet.

AP3

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

That would be my favoured option too.

Just - calmly and clearly say "My offer has now been reduced to £x - in view of vendor stating they will take the f & f. My first offer will still stand - PROVIDED they leave the f & f as agreed".

Sounds like the "financial reasons" they lost their first 2 buyers might have been that they tried this on with them as well - but they can't keep on pulling this stunt for evermore. Sooner or later they are going to have to mean what they say and stick to agreed terms. As buyer 3 - hopefully they'll have got fed-up of this game by now.

Do you know what their onward plans are? Have they got a further purchase lined-up? If they have - then I wonder if it's a house they "love" and wouldnt want to lose and you have any chance of getting in contact with their vendors to explain what is going on and maybe those vendors might put some pressure on them from the other end? (ie "If you don't stop agreeing offers with your buyers and then trying to renege on them - we might just decide not to sell to you after all because of all the delay you are causing us by playing this game").

My understanding of their forward purchase is that the owners have moved out, and are desperate for the money for it. Our vendors are, according to the agent, also desperate to move to their "dream house". They're moving to follow grand children.


When we viewed the house initially, most of their possessions were boxed up and ready to move, so I'm assuming that the last buyer to pull out was very recent. Hence my dwindling hope that it's just a mistake. The EA was supposed to check and come back to me yesterday, but didn't.


The property's been on the market since January, and it's very atypical. Priced as a large family home, but actually it only has 3 bedrooms, and one of those is downstairs, so really suitable for family with a couple of young kids. (though perfect for us)


Assuming the F&F list is "for real", it's looking like I either negotiate down the offer, which would essentially cancel out F&F costs, which seems unworkable as it appears structured to strangle out a few more thousand on top.


Accepting it would honestly just go against everything I stand for. It's like paying a ransom.


Walking away is very much an option. We're about a grand into it already, but I can take that hit if only to take the moral high ground (as it appears to me).


My only issue is that we haven't seen anything else we like (been looking last night), and having a conscience, I don't want to let down our buyers. I priced ours BMV for a quick sale, just to accommodate our vendors apparent desperation to move. Theirs is, I believe, quite a bit above MV, which I attributed to the F&F quality.


Looks like it'll be Monday now before the lazy EAs actually get confirmation. I'll be in the pub....

googler

I've said this before in these forums, but if E&W followed Scotland's lead in outlining the whole of the contract in the early stages (by making the contract terms part of the offer and acceptance), the OP and others wouldn't be having this problem.

OP has made an offer, but the seller's side haven't really accepted anything, since the contract wasn't finalised early on.... and they then feel they have liberty to change things, because they're "not in the contract (yet)"

phoebe1989seb

We were in a similar situation - but on the other side, being the vendors - five years ago. In our case it was a genuine mistake though - caused by an ill-informed (manager of the) EA we were using and slightly dim buyers, lol!

We were selling our home that we had renovated to a high standard including bespoke hand-painted kitchen, two bathrooms etc etc. In the kitchen we had both a free-standing Rangemaster 110cm oven (purchased new for our previous house, cost £1800) and the Aga that a PO had fitted.

The EA 'blurb' for the kitchen stated "Aga" and "space for a range cooker".

Our dealings throughout had been with one senior EA, the branch manager having never been to our house. We accepted an offer after only a few days on the market and this was made via the manager as 'our' EA was off that day.

The potential purchasers stated that their offer was based upon the inclusion of "the Aga and a bespoke 2' wide light fitting" (the latter hung in the vaulted-ceilinged main reception space and would be no use to us in our new home) which we accepted.

We proceeded to fill out the F&F, stating that our Rangemaster oven was not included.

Next thing we had a call from our EA informing us our buyers wanted to come for a (fifth) viewing prior to exchange to iron out a few issues. Long story slightly shorter, they immediately expressed concern that we had reneged on our agreement regarding the Aga, at which point the penny dropped - the branch manager, having never been to our property was unaware of the existence of both Aga and Rangemaster (made by Aga ) and the buyers had used the generic term 'Aga' when referring to the oven.......confused? Yep, so we're we!

Our buyers threatened to walk unless we threw in the Rangemaster. We weren't keen as we were buying a house with no kitchen at all (unmortgageable), so we initially stood our ground. Ultimately our EA offered us a cash incentive as they were keen not to have the sale fall through - although less than the value of a new Rangemaster - which we accepted and we were fortunate to find the same model on preloved for a few hundred £££........

Otoh, when selling our next house in 2014, our buyers' offer was again based on inclusion of (the replacement) Rangemaster. This time we readily agreed. Imagine our surprise when they then proceeded to ask us how much we wanted for it!

Moral of this story - get everything down in black and white at the earliest opportunity, as buyers (not to mention EAs can be a funny bunch!

AP3

phoebe1989seb wrote: »

We were in a similar situation - but on the other side, being the vendors - five years ago. In our case it was a genuine mistake though - caused by an ill-informed (manager of the) EA we were using and slightly dim buyers, lol!

We were selling our home that we had renovated to a high standard including bespoke hand-painted kitchen, two bathrooms etc etc. In the kitchen we had both a free-standing Rangemaster 110cm oven (purchased new for our previous house, cost £1800) and the Aga that a PO had fitted.

The EA 'blurb' for the kitchen stated "Aga" and "space for a range cooker".

Our dealings throughout had been with one senior EA, the branch manager having never been to our house. We accepted an offer after only a few days on the market and this was made via the manager as 'our' EA was off that day.

The potential purchasers stated that their offer was based upon the inclusion of "the Aga and a bespoke 2' wide light fitting" (the latter hung in the vaulted-ceilinged main reception space and would be no use to us in our new home) which we accepted.

We proceeded to fill out the F&F, stating that our Rangemaster oven was not included.

Next thing we had a call from our EA informing us our buyers wanted to come for a (fifth) viewing prior to exchange to iron out a few issues. Long story slightly shorter, they immediately expressed concern that we had reneged on our agreement regarding the Aga, at which point the penny dropped - the branch manager, having never been to our property was unaware of the existence of both Aga and Rangemaster (made by Aga ) and the buyers had used the generic term 'Aga' when referring to the oven.......confused? Yep, so we're we!

Our buyers threatened to walk unless we threw in the Rangemaster. We weren't keen as we were buying a house with no kitchen at all (unmortgageable), so we initially stood our ground. Ultimately our EA offered us a cash incentive as they were keen not to have the sale fall through - although less than the value of a new Rangemaster - which we accepted and we were fortunate to find the same model on preloved for a few hundred £££........

Otoh, when selling our next house in 2014, our buyers' offer was again based on inclusion of (the replacement) Rangemaster. This time we readily agreed. Imagine our surprise when they then proceeded to ask us how much we wanted for it!

Moral of this story - get everything down in black and white at the earliest opportunity, as buyers (not to mention EAs can be a funny bunch!

I'm still hopeful that it was a mistake. I even have emails from the vendor confirming what the kitchen contains, and stating that it's included.(EA emailed them, then just forwarded to me, including the vendor's original email and email address.)


I just can't get my head around why they'd have been taking everything with the previous sale that fell through. They're even wanting to take the black wheelie bin! (blue and green can stay though....!)


I can only think/hope that they'd accepted a ridiculously low ball offer, and that made them want to scrape every last penny out of the house.

marksoton

AP3 wrote: »

I just can't get my head around why they'd have been taking everything with the previous sale that fell through. They're even wanting to take the black wheelie bin! (blue and green can stay though....!)

You bloody what? That's not their property to take. The council own it. These people clearly need slapping down. If they don't start complying walk.

Davesnave

marksoton wrote: »

You bloody what? That's not their property to take. The council own it. These people clearly need slapping down. If they don't start complying walk.

Hang on, some of us do own private wheelie bins!

Like 'two jags' Prescott, we have a pair, as our council is too cash-strapped to supply them to rural customers.

Our bin men don't seem to know what to do with them, but that's another story!

HouseBuyer77

I just can't get my head around why they'd have been taking everything with the previous sale that fell through. They're even wanting to take the black wheelie bin! (blue and green can stay though....!)

Sounds like these vendors are trying to wring every penny out of the sale that they can get and may be very awkward to deal with you. You may be better off walking away.