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Notice or not

So I have found permanent employment elsewhere and starting this Sunday.
I had a temp contract with Tesco that ended on the second of August.
I have kept working after the end of the contract as they haven't told me otherwise.
Personnel manager says management will review my contract and make a decision about my fate. Manager said they'll give me a contract, but no mention of when and what type of contract.
As it stands I'm working without a contract and have no idea if it would be another temp one or permanent.

Today I told them I'm leaving and gave them a letter mentioning a week's notice as that would be the standard notice period I should give them but I wonder if the fact I have no contract at all right now, means I don't have an obligation to give them notice.

Can they not pay me for the days worked after the official end of my contract?
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Comments

  • In the absence of a contract (or clarity on the contract), statutory notice applies.


    Statutory notice is 1 week.


    So you should be paid for the week following your notice.
  • sangie595
    sangie595 Posts: 6,092 Forumite
    Scorpio33 wrote: »
    In the absence of a contract (or clarity on the contract), statutory notice applies.


    Statutory notice is 1 week.


    So you should be paid for the week following your notice.

    That is probably correct, but not for the reason you state.

    It is impossible for someone to work without a contract. Working creates a contract, whether or not it is written down. Statutory entitlements simply clarify what isn't written down.

    In this case the OP has had a contract which was fixed term, and that contract has expired. In that case the terms of the previous contract remain in force, and the notice period is whatever it said it was.

    Incidentally, not that it is relevant here, a fixed term contract that "runs out" and the employer continues to employ the person past that date without giving another fixed term contract, becomes "permanent", for what it is worth. - which might be a bit more if the person had two years employment already.
  • Very much doubt they know that by not giving me a new contract already, they have to make me permanent.
    I found a permanent job somewhere else closer to where I live so in any case new job would be better.

    From my point of view if I give them 1 week and work it I am just being courteous, seeing as I haven't received a professional treatment in regard to my contract and so on.

    Very shoddy that 10 day after the end of my contract I still haven't even been told that they want to actually keep me on and for how long. They had 3 months to evaluate me and I expected them to tell me something, either positive or negative, say a week before my contract ended. I don't think that was impossible for them to do.

    I was so worried that I wouldn't be kept on that I applied for other jobs and luckily got this other one so now I am leaving them.

    Other temp people were made permanent, with a uniform (temps don't even get a uniform at Tesco - see how much they consider them) and they started when I started and they can't even be bothered to print a couple of sheets with my new dates of employment.

    I gave my notice and supposedly the manager should have a chat with me to find out my reasons for leaving. No one said anything to me after I handed in my notice.

    I meant in case I didn't bother going in the two shifts I am supposed to work as notice, could they keep my earnings accrued after the end of my contract and just say I didn't have a contract, so no proof I was employed.

    Based on what the personnel manager said to me, the management has to review my contract and come to a decision as to whether keep me on or not. She never even confirmed I was being kept on and just didn't know on what kind of contract. It's like I could be working but they could turn around and decide they actually want to get rid of me since they never put it in writing I am still employed. I don't see how on these terms I am obliged to give them any notice and respect it.

    As for their shoddiness... they took almost the entire 3 months of my original contract to allocate a locker for me and more than one to make me sign the contract...

    I'm inclined to work the 1 week only because I am nice :p
  • shortcrust
    shortcrust Posts: 2,697 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker Newshound!
    I wouldn't worry about it. From what you've told us it sounds like they probably won't care one way or the other.
  • TBagpuss
    TBagpuss Posts: 11,236 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    They have to pay you for the shifts you worked, however,if you fail to work your notice then you would technically be in breach of your contract and they could claim from you in lieu of notice. In practice, it is unlikely that they would bother, but I would not recommend it.
    That said, if you have given them notice and told them what you believe your last day to be, and they have not disputed that, so you could argue that they have accepted it.
    All posts are my personal opinion, not formal advice Always get proper, professional advice (particularly about anything legal!)
  • getmore4less
    getmore4less Posts: 46,882 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper I've helped Parliament
    Very much doubt they know that by not giving me a new contract already, they have to make me permanent.

    They know, probably hope the employees don't understand the implications and will just accept what is put in front of them.

    I found a permanent job somewhere else closer to where I live so in any case new job would be better.

    resign and take the new job

    From my point of view if I give them 1 week and work it I am just being courteous, seeing as I haven't received a professional treatment in regard to my contract and so on.

    not relevant, what is will be the notice in the contract(that still exists)

    Very shoddy that 10 day after the end of my contract I still haven't even been told that they want to actually keep me on and for how long. They had 3 months to evaluate me and I expected them to tell me something, either positive or negative, say a week before my contract ended. I don't think that was impossible for them to do.

    until they give you notice to terminate you still have a job.


    I was so worried that I wouldn't be kept on that I applied for other jobs and luckily got this other one so now I am leaving them.

    give your contractual notice


    Other temp people were made permanent, with a uniform (temps don't even get a uniform at Tesco - see how much they consider them) and they started when I started and they can't even be bothered to print a couple of sheets with my new dates of employment.

    I gave my notice and supposedly the manager should have a chat with me to find out my reasons for leaving. No one said anything to me after I handed in my notice.

    I meant in case I didn't bother going in the two shifts I am supposed to work as notice, could they keep my earnings accrued after the end of my contract and just say I didn't have a contract, so no proof I was employed.

    work they need to pay, don't forget the accrued untaken holiday.


    Based on what the personnel manager said to me, the management has to review my contract and come to a decision as to whether keep me on or not. She never even confirmed I was being kept on and just didn't know on what kind of contract. It's like I could be working but they could turn around and decide they actually want to get rid of me since they never put it in writing I am still employed. I don't see how on these terms I am obliged to give them any notice and respect it.

    they can do that without reason in the first 2 years and after that a termination by end of fixed term would be redundancy.

    your contract is till running on the same terms(except the end date)

    As for their shoddiness... they took almost the entire 3 months of my original contract to allocate a locker for me and more than one to make me sign the contract...

    I'm inclined to work the 1 week only because I am nice :p

    Would seem my first point applies you don't understand the implications of an employer not terminating a fixed term.
  • BadBehaviour
    BadBehaviour Posts: 317 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 12 August 2016 pm31 7:26PM
    Would seem my first point applies you don't understand the implications of an employer not terminating a fixed term.

    I have already resigned and taken the new job. I have signed a contract with new company already.

    I know that within the first 2 years I can't claim unfair dismissal. It was also in my temp contract with Tesco that the fixed term could end sooner if they didn't need me anymore, subject to notice (which I doubt they would have respected)

    I get that it looks like in my case I would have to abide by the terms of the original contract but I don't see why since that contract had a termination date to it so it should stop being valid after that and I should be issued a new one with the new conditions (ok, we know they'd be the same terms and conditions but still) if they wanted me to keep working for them.

    Otherwise what's the point of even having an end date. They already had the clause that they could get rid of me at any time so really no need to give an end date. If there is one, it means that contract ceases to be valid after that date.

    Not my problem that they couldn't sort out a new one before that one ran out, leaving me to work without a new contract already in place. A sensible employer would have made sure they had prepared a new contract in time.

    I am aware now that there is this rule that says original contract is still valid in the absence of a new one, but it doesn't seem logic to me.

    I will have to work the one week notice but to me it's just me being nice to them when they haven't been very professional and organised.

    Mind you, I wasn't even told I had to keep working, I assumed that since they didn't tell me anything, it meant I was staying on. I had to ask the manager and all she could say was that contract probably would go over the termination date and they'd give me a new one.
    I also had to go and ask the personnel manager as I said and she was even more vague.

    I have 2 shifts left to do as a notice and I just remembered that I have 2 days of holidays not used, so could I take these two days left off as a holiday?
  • getmore4less
    getmore4less Posts: 46,882 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper I've helped Parliament
    You still don't get it, by continuing to work the ONLY term of the contract that changes is the termination date.

    (like when you get a pay rise the only contractual term that changes is the pay)

    In a lot of fixed term there are still a notice requirements on one or both sides which makes any end date just an advanced advisory and not advanced notice.

    If you want(ed) ALL terms of the contract to cease you needed to stop turning up under terms required by he contract, that has not changed.
  • You still don't get it, by continuing to work the ONLY term of the contract that changes is the termination date.

    (like when you get a pay rise the only contractual term that changes is the pay)

    In a lot of fixed term there are still a notice requirements on one or both sides which makes any end date just an advanced advisory and not advanced notice.

    If you want(ed) ALL terms of the contract to cease you needed to stop turning up under terms required by he contract, that has not changed.

    When they made changes to the pay last month, they issued a new contract in fact, unlike now.
    So I assume that since I haven't received any communication of changes, this would be another temp contract running for 12 weeks, going by this logic that no notice of changes means things stay the same; it seems to contradict the fact it should now be permanent like you said since they haven't given me a new contract yet.

    I get what you're saying. I'm just playing the devil's advocate.

    How am I to imagine that if they don't say anything and I get to the end date, then things stay the same? The contract and staff book don't say anything about this. Contract states an end date and just says me or Tesco can terminate the contract earlier subject to notice (no notice on my part within the first month required). That's it.

    I am quoting from their website where it says about renewing a temp contract:

    "Yes – if your contract is coming to an end and there is another position we believe could be suitable for you, then we’ll offer you the new role along with a new contract which will start once your existing contract has ended.

    If you’re issued a new contract within one week of your old contract finishing, you will be given continuous service. This means that your continuous service date is the date your first contract started."

    For me the week has passed and I have no new contract, so no continuous service going by that; I am not to be considered employed since the original start date then, so am I employed at the moment?.

    I don't know all the employment laws obviously, what I can go by is just the contract they give me and the staff book and they should state all things clearly.
    I have read nowhere on the contract or staff book that with a temp contract if they don't give you notice to terminate, it runs on.

    It would have been well within reason to not turn up after the 2nd of August since they never informed me of this "rule".

    I understand all that you explained but come on, is it so difficult for them to just bother to tell me "yes you stay".
    Why does it have to be implied and cause me to worry about nothing? If I had been told prior to the end date that it was gonna run on, I wouldn't have applied for the other job, but as it stands, I am glad I did because I like to know where I stand and not be left wondering. I knew it was a temp contract at the start, now I have no idea about it.
    This other job is permanent from the start at least.

    Also personnel manager actually said that the management still had to decide if I stayed or not. They don't even know themselves how it works I guess.
  • getmore4less
    getmore4less Posts: 46,882 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper I've helped Parliament
    More examples of not understanding how things work and just believing what the employer says or making up what you think.


    For me the week has passed and I have no new contract, so no continuous service going by that; I am not to be considered employed since the original start date then, so am I employed at the moment?


    The hand book is wrong, continuity is not determined by written contract but by what you work.
    If there is a gap of a week(including two Sat) between the written contract but you worked any time in that week(or used paid holiday) you get continuity of employment.

    any contract without notice of an end date is effectively as permanent as any contact can be.

    by working passed the old end date you on a contract with no end date.

    How hard is it to understand if you are still on the rota or you turn up and were expected you have stayed on.
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