PIP Claim Advice

juno-eclipse

Hello,


Sorry I wasnt sure to post this here or in the Disability Money Matters section Mods feel free to move.


I’m currently filling out a DLA to PIP application on behalf of someone else with Autism Spectrum Disorder and severe anxiety, I've been reading up on the Planning and Following Journeys and see it’s difficult to qualify for 12 points unless being physically disabled, however I’d like to know what they class as “A Journey”?


He used to live on a housing estate when he was younger and was stuck in the house 24/7 unless someone picked him up and took him to town, so he was moved to the town centre several years ago to give him some independence, most shops are less than 100 meters away, with the supermarket being a 3rd of a mile, he cant go at busy times and most of the time has someone with him, but he does go to the shops once or twice a week during the quietest times, are these considered journeys?


He’s unable to leave the town on his own, he can’t use public transport alone, even to a familiar place like the next town along, I know he could get 10 points for not being able to go to an unfamiliar place due to anxiety without another person, but he wouldn’t be able to work out Bus routes, roads, would forget to get off due to absences/day dreaming and due to his Autism and Anti Anxiety medication he gets confused and lost easily, and has very little road awareness, he more often than not just walks out without looking causing cars to emergency stop, he can speak, however not to strangers, unless it’s a memorised response, basic hellos and thank yous etc.


So ignoring the Anxiety as other cases have deemed that to be a maximum of 11e Extream Psychological distress, is it likely he could qualify for 11f Unable to make a familiar journey without assistance for 12 points? And if so how would you recommend wording it to get it right first time? As he wouldn’t be able to cope with an appeal later on.


Kind Regards
Juno

Diary

If he can go out alone for even short journeys to the supermarket, he would be extremely unlikely to get 12 points in planning journeys.
Basically a journey is going from A to B however long or short that might be. His shop trips would be considered familiar journeys and the fact he does them alone precludes 12 points.

If getting 12 points is vital and going to appeal is not an option you need get specialist face to face advice to fill in the form.

tomtontom

You should just write what you have above. Be honest, don't try to fix your answers to maximise the points, you'll only come unstuck at assessment when your answers don't match the form.

NeilCr

What tomtontom said

A "specialist" will tell you to write what is true. There isn't some clever fix that "specialists" do. But we do understand how forms are best filled in and how to elicit information from clients

And I am using the word "specialist" quite loosely here. Most have their knowledge from having completed quite a lot of forms!

Good luck with your claim

paragon909

juno-eclipse wrote: »

Hello,


Sorry I wasnt sure to post this here or in the Disability Money Matters section Mods feel free to move.


I’m currently filling out a DLA to PIP application on behalf of someone else with Autism Spectrum Disorder and severe anxiety, I've been reading up on the Planning and Following Journeys and see it’s difficult to qualify for 12 points unless being physically disabled, however I’d like to know what they class as “A Journey”?


He used to live on a housing estate when he was younger and was stuck in the house 24/7 unless someone picked him up and took him to town, so he was moved to the town centre several years ago to give him some independence, most shops are less than 100 meters away, with the supermarket being a 3rd of a mile, he cant go at busy times and most of the time has someone with him, but he does go to the shops once or twice a week during the quietest times, are these considered journeys?


He’s unable to leave the town on his own, he can’t use public transport alone, even to a familiar place like the next town along, I know he could get 10 points for not being able to go to an unfamiliar place due to anxiety without another person, but he wouldn’t be able to work out Bus routes, roads, would forget to get off due to absences/day dreaming and due to his Autism and Anti Anxiety medication he gets confused and lost easily, and has very little road awareness, he more often than not just walks out without looking causing cars to emergency stop, he can speak, however not to strangers, unless it’s a memorised response, basic hellos and thank yous etc.


So ignoring the Anxiety as other cases have deemed that to be a maximum of 11e Extream Psychological distress, is it likely he could qualify for 11f Unable to make a familiar journey without assistance for 12 points? And if so how would you recommend wording it to get it right first time? As he wouldn’t be able to cope with an appeal later on.


Kind Regards
Juno

I have severe anxiety, I got awarded 4 points.

I think you should really read up on the descriptors rather than trying to think what you should say for maximum points.

The specific question you ask about mobility.

1. Planning and following journeys.
a. Can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided. 0 points.
b. Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 4 points.
c. Cannot plan the route of a journey. 8 points.
d. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10 points.
e. Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 10 points.
f. Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. 12 points.

It's not about wording it in any specific way, You fill the application out stating what is exactly wrong with the claimant, Send appropriate evidence to support this claim. Health Professionals aren't stupid (well not all of them) and will spot deliberate attempts to defraud the government.

I think you should fill the application etc before worrying about appeals lol....

juno-eclipse

Thanks for your responses, im not trying to fix the answers id only ever put down exactly how it is, i just know from several other forms i've done for people that there pretty loose with there interpretation of the descriptors and always been advised to use key words instead of alternatives they can ignore, i just dont want to write something too simple that would loose points when i might have missed something that would entitle him to more, its confusing because the form says "a route includes using public transport" so it makes me think they class a journey as something substantial, like traveling to a friends house, rather than walking round the corner, as it says just below that "this question isnt looking at your physical ability to get around, this will be answerd on the next question". And I've always been advised that questions are based on weather its more than 50 percent of the time, this is only possible a few days a week, the rest we are always out with him and guide him everywhere.

Thanks again
Juno

Icequeen99

There has been a recent Upper Tribunal decision in this area that has placed a narrower interpretation on Descriptor 11. You can read the case and commentary on the Disability Rights UK site

http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2013/november/latest-posted-decision-summaries

IQ

A_Flock_Of_Sheep

Yet another person reading the PIP descriptors and attempting to fit to the ones they "ought to get". And it is always the "following journeys" ones that seem to be the ones people are doing it with!

The Following Journeys descriptors are possibly the most complex of all the descrptors. And yes you are discounted from them if you can get from A to B but not if you cannot do so reliably, timely and safely. You must also be capable of using public transport to even get anywhere near these two descriptors.

Also understand that to score you cannot follow the route of a journey but can do so providing you receive assistance from another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. The latter must be a device specialised for disabled people.

So ask yourself - can the person follow a route without an assistance dog providing navigation? Or without an assistance person? Or without an assistance orientation aid which is specially designed for disabled people.

OP Just write the situation as it is and let the DWP decide what (if any) of the Going Out descriptors apply in this case.

These descriptors are aimed at a narrow group of PIP claimers - in the main senory impaired people who, without another person or a dog cannot follow tthe route of their journey. They must be capable of using public transport - so the assistance dog may lead them onto a bus for example.

The trouble is people were trying to widen the scope of these two descriptors so that people with mental illness could qualify for the Higher Rate Mobility. The Tribunals have in a way stamped that out with two rulings now.

letthemeatcake

My Son is on the autistic spectrum and was awarded 12 points for the mobility part of the award. He is fit and well physically and I made this clear at his assessment.

He cannot go out alone and his anxiety is extreme- I told the truth about how we reacts and did not expect anything for mobility but he got enhanced award.

Just be clear about how the anxiety manifests itself.