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Railway Byelaws

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking
9 replies 1.2K views
jpb293jpb293 Forumite
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Morning everyone,

I've done lots of research, including the newbies sticky, and would welcome your expert advice on how to proceed:
- I parked in a station car park on 9/11/15. (The station was "between" car park operators at the time and hadn't put up signs, although I can't prove this). I received windscreen penalty notice camscanner.com/share/c7fZE/0/w105s12yecqpa . Windscreen penalty notice refers to Railway byelaw 14
- I ignored the windscreen notice
- On 15/12/15, I received an "Unpaid Penalty Notice to Owner" camscanner.com/share/c7fZE/0/w105s12yecqpa . This included a link to photographic evidence, but not the evidence itself.
- On 23/12/15 I emailed Meteor/ZZPS using the standard PCN appeal template, including request for POPLA number, with some added specifics on which parts of POFA hadn't been followed (I was a bit confused and didn't appreciate at this stage that Meteor were pursuing me with a Penalty Notice under Railway Byelaws, rather than a PCN under POFA!)
- Subsequent to this I've exchanged numerous emails with ZZPS, asking for proof that signage had been erected, which they haven't provided. I haven't specified who the driver of the vehicle was.
- On 26/1/16 I received a letter from ZZPS (acting for Meteor) stating that fine had increased from £124 to £160 and threatening escalation to Wright Hassall solicitor

So, I guess my question is, should I proactively press ZZPS / BPA on their failure to provide me with POPLA reference (is this even appropriate for railway byelaws?), or attempt to string out for 6 month deadline as per coupon-mad advice here forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5400167 ?

many thanks in advance for any assistance - you guys are heroes!

jpb293

Replies

  • To my knowledge, if you breach railway bye-laws, the legal track is akin to road traffic offences on public roads. It is legally a penalty, not a charge for breach of contract, and I cannot see where recovery agents can come into this unless it is a scam - because bye-law matters are not dealt with in county courts and it is not a Protection of Freedoms Act matter.

    Note that a great many operators deliberately misrepresent themselves to be enforcing bye-laws and in doing so, they waive their own POFA rights. One example is CP Plus on the Southwest Trains circuit. They are known scammers.

    Appeals should generally be handled by a third party where bye-laws are genuine, not the operator.
  • hoohoohoohoo Forumite
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    String it out

    Dear ZZPS,
    Re charge xyz
    The debt is denied. I am still in the appeals process with the operator who has not produced any evidence of signage to show a contravention occured. Please refer the debt back to the operator.
    Dedicated to driving up standards in parking
  • pappa_golfpappa_golf Forumite
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    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
  • UmkomaasUmkomaas Forumite
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    To my knowledge, if you breach railway bye-laws, the legal track is akin to road traffic offences on public roads. It is legally a penalty, not a charge for breach of contract, and I cannot see where recovery agents can come into this unless it is a scam - because bye-law matters are not dealt with in county courts and it is not a Protection of Freedoms Act matter.

    Note that a great many operators deliberately misrepresent themselves to be enforcing bye-laws and in doing so, they waive their own POFA rights. One example is CP Plus on the Southwest Trains circuit. They are known scammers.

    Appeals should generally be handled by a third party where bye-laws are genuine, not the operator.

    And at the criminal end of things, to boot!
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
  • jpb293jpb293 Forumite
    2 Posts
    Fifth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    MoneySaving Newbie
    thanks Greatest Player, hoohoo, pappa golf, and Umkomaas - really helpful

    I've sent the suggested email, and noted the pepipoo thread - presumably the key part is emanresu's point "Any breach of bylaws is via the Magistrates and HM Government are the creditor on conviction"?

    Out of interest, what's the source of the six month time-out - is this part of the byelaws or has it been established by precedent?

    thanks again

    jpb293
  • edited 2 February 2016 at 11:55PM
    pappa_golfpappa_golf Forumite
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    edited 2 February 2016 at 11:55PM
    read this (new today) http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5404799


    and pepipoo (updated)


    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=103952


    not going to search thru all your piccis


    what was the offence? , edit: got it


    there is no bylaw offence of failing to display a ticket


    thec offence is a fake attempt to extract money from you
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
  • Rover_DriverRover_Driver Forumite
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    jpb293 wrote: »
    Out of interest, what's the source of the six month time-out - is this part of the byelaws or has it been established by precedent?
    jpb293



    An offence contrary to the byelaws is a summary offence, the information (in England & Wales) is required to be laid before the court within 6 months of the offence.


    s.127, Magistrates' Courts Act 1980.
  • pappa_golfpappa_golf Forumite
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    however as pointed out , there is no offence under railway bylaws of failing to display a ticket
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
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    Yep, this is all smoke and mirrors. Best to respond but never quickly (wait 14 days each time) and try to string it out to the six months with questions written from your point of view as registered keeper, NOT as driver. Do not imply who parked the car.
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