Unauthorised claim closed in buyers favour

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Ebay, Auctions, Car Boot & Jumble Sales
9 replies 1.6K views
Princess_xPrincess_x Forumite
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Hi. I hope someone can help. I recently sold some vouchers and posted via special delivery. A few hours later, the buyer made an unauthorised claim on PayPal. I provided the tracking number and also took a picture of the receipt as proof and uploaded this.

I checked several forums and people stated that as long as the seller had a tracking number or proof of posting then it should all be okay. Well, looks like that wasn't the case at all as I just received an email from PayPal saying that the case was closed and to check the resolution centre for the outcome. I could see from my balance that the case was closed in the buyers favour but even then after a bit of searching, I found the case and there was a note which basically said that it was indeed not authorised by the buyer and so the funds were recovered from my account.

As a result, I now have a negative balance. Fair enough about the buyer. I just don't see why they had to take the funds from my account when I clearly did everything expected of me and even paid for a premium service. Why couldn't they just pay out of their own pocket?

I'm now waiting until tomorrow morning to call, but for now I guess I just want some advice. Is there any way PayPal will give me the money back or is it likely that I've lost it for good? I know some reps for PayPal are helpful, but with others it's like talking to a brick wall. Really annoyed.

Sorry for the long rant.

Replies

  • soolinsoolin Forumite, Board Guide
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    Firstly did the transaction say 'ok to send' and did you use the paypal address?

    I suspect that you confused paypal with the tracking number, they are easily confused and I never trust them with an unauthorised claim without emailing them as well and perhaps even phoning to remind them I had seller protection. You mention proof of posting, was it absolutely clear what you uploaded , did you state clearly it was proof of,postage? if so phone them first thing tomorrow and remind them you have full seller protection and you insist on getting your money back.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to [email protected] (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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  • Princess_xPrincess_x Forumite
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    soolin wrote: »
    Firstly did the transaction say 'ok to send' and did you use the paypal address?

    I suspect that you confused paypal with the tracking number, they are easily confused and I never trust them with an unauthorised claim without emailing them as well and perhaps even phoning to remind them I had seller protection. You mention proof of posting, was it absolutely clear what you uploaded , did you state clearly it was proof of,postage? if so phone them first thing tomorrow and remind them you have full seller protection and you insist on getting your money back.

    Thank you for replying.

    Yep, it said ok to send and I sent it to the address on their paypal.

    And yeah it was clear what I had uploaded as I selected the option of tracking number and then the option of proof of posting.

    By the way, does the tracking have to show that it was delivered when it comes to not authorised cases? Because it shows attempted delivery on Saturday but no sign of it being rearranged and I suspect if the buyer is a scammer then he wanted to wait until he won the case before rearranging.

    There seems to be some difference in opinion on different forums on whether proof of posting is sufficient or whether it has to show the item being delivered when it comes to unauthorised claims.

    Either way, I will be calling up tomorrow to enquire and hopefully post a positive update.

  • soolinsoolin Forumite, Board Guide
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    A claim for unauthorised use of a card can only be defended with proof of postage, tracking is irrelevant and unnecessary.

    Have a read of the postage sticky thread, it is explained there.

    I have had 2 this year already, and have won both with just POP.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to [email protected] (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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  • ballisticbrianballisticbrian Forumite
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    Can't see why you lost the case, if you followed the PayPal rules you are covered.
    Warning: any unnecessary disclaimers appearing under my posts do not bear any connection with reality, either intended, accidental or otherwise. Your statutory rights are not affected.
  • Princess_xPrincess_x Forumite
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    They said that the reason why I wasn't covered under seller protection is because the vouchers had codes so that comes under digital goods which is not covered even though I had posted it. I'm a bit confused because with these gift cards, it comes in a gift card form but the code is on the back so people tend to email the codes but that's just what scammers want so I ended up posting them out. I'm really confused about how that would be considered digital.

    Anyway, the lady I spoke to was really nice and her advice was what I would have done next which is to call the buyers local delivery office and get them to post it back. I've just done that and there is nothing that they could do as they said because they're a postal service, and not a courier, they have a legal obligation to carry out the delivery up to the maximum length of time. The PayPal advisor did say to call back if the tracking shows as delivered though so I guess right now all I have to do is wait until the 18 days (I think) for Royal Mail comes up and then sell them again when I receive it.

    Grr, what a nightmare.

  • Princess_xPrincess_x Forumite
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    Just a further update:

    I received a couple of emails from PayPal, one that stated they had sent a message through the message centre and another one saying that the transaction had been completed which I found odd and thought it was a spam email. So I logged onto my PayPal and saw that I now had the missing amount put back in and the message basically said that after reviewing the evidence, they decided to credit my account. Result!

    But it also teaches me to not list vouchers that have codes on them on ebay.

    Thank you for all the help though soolin.

  • Hermione_GrangerHermione_Granger Forumite
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    soolin wrote: »
    A claim for unauthorised use of a card can only be defended with proof of postage, tracking is irrelevant and unnecessary.
    Even though a claim for unauthorised payment can be defended with proof of postage, it's incorrect to state that it can only be defended with a POP.

    Proof of postage is only the minimum that Paypal will accept but proof of delivery is also suitable to defend this type of claim.
  • edited 1 July 2015 at 4:13PM
    soolinsoolin Forumite, Board Guide
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    edited 1 July 2015 at 4:13PM
    Even though a claim for unauthorised payment can be defended with proof of postage, it's incorrect to state that it can only be defended with a POP.

    Proof of postage is only the minimum that Paypal will accept but proof of delivery is also suitable to defend this type of claim.

    Actually whilst that would appear completely logical it is not always the case with paypal. There are many instances of sellers losing such a claim on paypal purely because they only have online tracking showing delivery. The criteria on paypal is quite strict and requires proof of postage to the address shown on the paypal payment page.

    MYHErmes, which I use regularly has been an issue according to the community boards as you only get a paper receipt with no info on it, and it requires a lot of discussion with paypal to get them to accept the online tracking that shows collection from the home, or from a shop as proof of posting.

    I find with ebay that confusing them with their own terms is sometimes the only way to win a claim.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to [email protected] (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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  • Hermione_GrangerHermione_Granger Forumite
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    soolin wrote: »
    Actually whilst that would appear completely logical it is not always the case with paypal. There are many instances of sellers losing such a claim on paypal purely because they only have online tracking showing delivery. The criteria on paypal is quite strict and requires proof of postage to the address shown on the paypal payment page.

    No it doesn't.
    It requires proof of postage or proof of delivery.

    From the Paypal user agreement, seller protection section.
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