Registering VAT for Belgium and Germany.

davidious

Anyone know about registering for VAT in Belgium and Germany,
when not registered in the UK as I don't meet the UK threshold.

and what is A "Certificate of Status of Taxable Person."

Mistral001

Is your business based in Belgium or Germany? Do you have any presence there shop or office etc?


What do you mean you do not reach the threshold in the UK? You can still register for VAT in UK if your turnover is below the threshold. It is compulsory if you are over the threshold.

paddyrg

Unless your business is formed in those countries, I can imagine you'll only make a million problems if it's even possible, and that HMRC might take an active interest when you try to bring money or goods back to the UK.

How about registering in the UK voluntarily which is free and easy then completing your EC Sales List every quarter?

JasonLVC

davidious wrote: »

Anyone know about registering for VAT in Belgium and Germany,
when not registered in the UK as I don't meet the UK threshold.

and what is A "Certificate of Status of Taxable Person."

A certificate of taxable status is a form used to confirm your business status (ie, limited company, VAT registered, etc)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-certificate-of-status-of-business-person-vat66a

But this form is used mainly for making a VAT refund request where your business is not based in the EU (ie, America, India, etc). For example, you could be a Canada based business that attends a conference in the UK and you incur VAT on hotel costs that you can reclaim back from HMRC but you need to prove you are a business in Canada. This form proves that.

So I think it might be best if you explain briefly what your business does/sells and where it is based, we can then give better opinion on what to do next.

Are you making sales of goods or services (or both) to Belgium and Germany

Are your customers other businesses or man on the street consumers?

There are different rules for goods and services and different rules for business and consumer sales, this is why the questions are being asked.

Its not that common to require a VAT registration in another EU member state, unless you a) have stock IN those other member states and then that would require a foreign VAT registration or b) if you make sales of goods from the UK in excees of 100,000 euros into Germany or Belgium, that would also require a VAT registration in those Countries.

davidious

Passenger Minibus service from the UK. Sole Trader.

Belgium is to be the latest country to require foreign public transport companies to register for VAT, and charge a proportion of Belgian VAT on the price of their tickets.

JasonLVC

davidious wrote: »

Passenger Minibus service from the UK. Sole Trader.

Belgium is to be the latest country to require foreign public transport companies to register for VAT, and charge a proportion of Belgian VAT on the price of their tickets.

Ahh, that makes sense and why you also need one for Germany. These VAT rules for passenger transport are optional in the EU, but only Belgium and Germany "opted" to use them. #annoying.

A non-established trader (ie, a UK business not resident in Belgium or Germany), has no VAT registration threshold, so registration is required as soon as you make any sales there, even though in the UK you don't have to register for VAT*

*UK rule only - if the minibus carries more than 10 persons the supply is zero rated and so you might as well register for UK too as you can reclaim VAT on purchases but with no VAT due on sales. If minibus is less than 10, then yes, stay away from VAT registering until absolutely necessary.

So anyway, you need to calculate the miles you spend in Belgium/Germany compared to non-Belgium/German miles and that determines what proportion of your fare is subject to Belgian/German VAT.

How to register yourself in Belgium
http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/resources/documents/taxation/vat/traders/vat_refunds/2010/vademecum-refund-belgium_2010_en.pdf ....which is whre it talks about "taxable status ".

If not VAT registered, then evidence of your sole trader being registered with HMRC - do you have a UTR (taxpayer reference number), that should suffice.

The special VAT return regime for this is done online, so unless you are good with the language then you'll need someone who can translate and submit the return correctly for you (same for both Germany/Beligum)


German rules here :- http://www.rda.de/uploads/media/BMF_Factsheet_VAT_on_international_passenger_Transport.pdf

For Germany, have you tried the British-German Chamber of Commerce based in the UK, they might be able to recommend a cheap route to getting this all sorted http://grossbritannien.ahk.de/en/services/tax/german-vat-returns/?no_cache=1


Not sure about Belgium, but if you can understand the German approach then the same logic will apply to Belgium, just a change of language/different forms to fill.

martindow

HMRC have set up a system for EU VAT payments that since the beginning of the month have been required for sales of downloads etc. to EU countries. You need to pay local VAT for these sales but MOSS allows you to do this in the UK for any EU country. If you are below the UK threshold this can be done without registering here.

https://www.gov.uk/register-and-use-the-vat-mini-one-stop-shop

It may be worth contacting HMRC to see if you can use this system.

davidious

martindow wrote: »

HMRC have set up a system for EU VAT payments that since the beginning of the month have been required for sales of downloads etc. to EU countries. You need to pay local VAT for these sales but MOSS allows you to do this in the UK for any EU country. If you are below the UK threshold this can be done without registering here.

https://www.gov.uk/register-and-use-the-vat-mini-one-stop-shop

It may be worth contacting HMRC to see if you can use this system.

That would not work as I may be stopped in Belgium or Germany or at the border. and be requited to prove that I am VAT registered there

martindow

davidious wrote: »

That would not work as I may be stopped in Belgium or Germany or at the border. and be requited to prove that I am VAT registered there

I've been reading about MOSS as in the future it is proposed that all EU transactions will involve paying VAT in the country where the customer lives. In effect MOSS involves HMRC registering you in EU countries' schemes. This seems similar to your situation.

Have you contacted HMRC to ask how to deal with this?

davidious

no I will.