Southern and their "Express" services.

yorkie2

It has been rumoured that Southern will reveal their Brighton Express and Gatwick Express route services will be considered to be run by separate imaginary 'Companies'.

At present the Southern route map clearly shows both routes as Southern services, under plans mooted today this arrangement will cease, and both routes may be shown as thin black "other operator routes".

The National Rail Conditions of Carriage, Condition 10, states that tickets may be restricted to those of a specific Train Company, meaning Southern Only tickets are currently valid on all Southern operated services. However Southern may claim that Gatwick Express and Brighton Express are fictional "companies for the purposes of ticketing".

The DfT have previously stated "The Department has discussed the status of Gatwick Express with Southern who agree that there is no separate Gatwick Express franchise or Train Operating Company" however Liam Ludlow, Customer Services Manager at Southern, was in defiant mood, stating "Although it is true that both Southern and Gatwick Express are operated by Southern Railway, two separate “train companies”, are defined as such for the purposes of these conditions"

Another member of Southern staff, who didn't want to be named, stated "Southern only tickets are absolute bargains, incompatible with the Express branded services. Southern have invested heavily in Class 442 rolling stock, ensuring a second-to-none interior and minimal fire risk, and therefore all customers using them should be paying a premium. The creation of imaginary Companies for the purposes of ticketing allows us to do that. We shouldn't be required to accept cheaper tickets on these premium, Express, services"

And another stated "For the puproses of ticketing, Southern services into Victoria may be classed as Underground services, and I will be issuing Penalty Fares for any passenger on Not Underground tickets. I will also be classing Gatwick Express as a separate Company and issuing Penalty Fares for the reason "Other - GatEx". No-one can stop me, and the DfT are too scared of us to do anything. As for Passenger Focus, they can't do nothing to stop me, either!"

Passenger rights advocates insist that the claims are bogus, and in fact all Southern operated services are valid on Southern tickets, and no fictional Companies can 'exist' for the 'purposes of ticketing' and have urged customers to continue to use Not Underground and Southern Only tickets on all Southern's services, whether branded "Express" or otherwise.

The_Groat_Counter

Time for a court case?

(p.s. Is any of the above post quoted from somewhere else - if so, where?)

agrinnall

The_Groat_Counter wrote: »

Time for a court case?

(p.s. Is any of the above post quoted from somewhere else - if so, where?)

Googling for the quotes just finds this thread, but maybe Yorkie2 has taken them from hard copy.

The_ICT_Engineer

imbe'cile d'avril

yorkie2

I posted it today, so I could get away with exaggerating (but only a little - honest!) and seeing if anyone thought it was all an April Fool, as it's so ridiculous you'd be forgiven for thinking it was all fake.

In fact, Southern really do claim that their Gatwick Express route is provided by a different "Train Company" to themselves, "for the purposes of ticketing".

The quotes from the DfT and Liam Ludlow are real quotes. The quotes from un-named Southern staff members, are slight exaggerations paraphrasing what some of their staff have actually said!

People really do get Penalty Fares for using "Not Underground" or "London Not Und" tickets on Southern operated trains, one example is at appealing against a fine for "travel beyond validity"? and another example I am not allowed to link to (but a search for Help: Brighton to Victoria validity with W Hampstead season ticket will find it!)

I have a copy of a Penalty Fare notice issued for reason "Other - GatEx", so yes, they really do invent the rules!