e-gold to rival bitcoin?

Satoshi

It was only a matter of time before the success of Bitcoin led to a new attempt to create a digital currency backed by gold. It seems as if that day has now arrived. While I fully think the ultimate monetary solution will be a decentralized payment protocol that merges Bitcoin-like technology with the ability to back it with gold, silver, copper or whatever people want, I am of the view that it cannot be done from an overly centralized authority or protocol. There are several reasons for this.
First, when you have a centralised single issuer of a currency who also is responsible for vaulting the gold or silver within the payment system you have an enormous degree of counter-party risk. The vault itself could be seized by “authorities” in whatever jurisdiction it is located in. Far better to have decentralised multiple vaulting systems anyone could set up and charge what they like for storage and running transactions and let the free market work. If they charge the least amount they will get most people storing their metal with them, more than someone else who is charging more for storage and transactions. If there were doubts about anything in the system people could withdraw the grams of monetary metal and hold it themselves outside the system.
Second, the human beings or company behind any currency system can themselves be pressured or threatened in order to comply with more powerful interests. The beauty of Bitcoin is that there is no “Bitcoin corporation.” It truly is decentralized and anarchic in nature. It basically puts “the powers that be” in a position that if they want to completely destroy it, they’d have to destroy the internet itself. If there is a head then if you cut off the head it is dead. If it has no head it can not be killed so easily.
That said, I do believe the evolution of money is headed to a Bitcoin type system with the ability to have whatever backing is desired by the market. So at this point my questions to Mr. Jackson would be:
1) How decentralized is this currency system intended to be if at all?
2) Will there be an open source protocol available to all?
3) Are the units of currency distributed to those that own gold in a particular vault or vaults under a the custodianship of a particular company?
4) Is the currency limited to those who own gold in the currency issuer vaults, or will they be linking vaults all over the world if such vaults care to be linked.
While I love the idea, it would have to be done right or it will be doomed to fail. I’m very curious to learn more about this and I’d also love to see a free market decentralised open source monetary metal backed digital monetary system.
But I long for an e-gold system that has very low storage and commision (transaction) fee's like Billionvault but unlike bullionvault it would be possible to pay for things around the world like bitcoin.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-29/e-gold-founder-launches-new-gold-backed-currency

opinions4u

I'm going to invent e-farts and see if the market can attribute a value to it.

Satoshi

Bullionvault has very low storage fees about £2 per month up for about 1KG of gold which is plenty for day to day paying bills and have your earnings go into your account.

Then they charge 0.5% going down to 0.05% for large transactions commission charges, so it works out less than credit cards charge these days.

The credit card companies must be getting worried with all these competitors.

But BV does not do e-commerce yet. I suspect there will be a future system that will win the competition if its this new e-gold or something else to come after it will just be history repeating itself. One way or another the same monetay cycle keeps repeating. Currency supplies are expanding exponentially both fiat and crypto until confidence is lost in currency and the free market chooses monetary precious metals as the money of choice.

Satoshi

What will kill BitCoin?...the return of FAITH in currencies! The central planners have had a plan in the works for decades to return to our Constitutional form of money using physical gold and silver. They know there is no stopping the monetary cycle repeating. YES coins - but YES ALSO to an electronic form of gold and silver coin that is 100% redeemable for monetary precious metal at any bank. It will have the convenience of Bitcoin but will be "Legal Tender" and be both backed and redeemable in gold and silver coin. You could either pay with grams of real silver or digital grams on your card or phone which are backed by real silver.
How's that for competition BitCoin?! Its going to be bitcoin 2.0 exactly the same as bitcoin but just adding a safety feature that means it cant go to nothing like bitcoin can and probably will. The Bitcoin symbol is a B with two lines going through it up and down '฿'. I propose a competing currency to BitCoin simply called 'SilverGram'. It is exactly what it says it is. A divisible gram of silver. The symbol could be similar to the dollar symbol $ but with two lines going up and down through the 'S' just like the bitcoin '฿' symbol.

The present dollar symbol with one line going through it comes from silver anyway, from the days of the silver certificate, but the US $ dollar is no longer is backed by silver. The 'silvergram' currency would also be money by true definition, unlike bitcoin which is not money but just currency. The 'silvergram' competing monetary system could compete with everything else out there and be valued at the historical norm about a tenth of an ounce or about 3 'silvergrams' an average 12hr days wage. This is the true value of silver for thousands of years. So hourly rates would be measured in milligrams depending on the work and how skilled or whatever. The freemarket would find correct values for everything on its own. It could work exactly the same as bitcoin but also be backed by real grams of silver. For smaller transactions even 0.1 milligrams increments could be used digitally (transferring ownership of serial numbers of 0.1 miligrams or 0.001grams of real silver) or real grams of silver could be exchanged in any form just as has been done for thousands of years. But now it could be digital for ease of use. All that matters is its backed by 999 fine silver.
This 'SilverGram' competing currency idea could work exactly the same as BitCoin with the addition it is backed by real money - Silver.
There could be official depositories around the world and expand in numbers as the idea takes off. Each depository would charge a small amount to cover costs for each transaction (just like bitcoin does) and have boxes 1Kg - 10 KG full of silver in any form but each box with serial numbers. The computer would be able to digitally change ownership of a percentage of the grams of silver in each box, right down to 0.0001% in any form coins or bars of any size or shape, all that matters is grams of 999 silver. It would even be possible to pay 0.1 of a digital miligram of silver for small transactions. Or it would be possible to 1KG transact silver digitally. You would have the option of taking possession of your real silvergrams at anytime.
You could have the "future digital" portion of the currency be digitally mined the same way as bitcoin. Then estimate a realistic number of grams of mineable silver. Currently estimated to be 17 years worth left. This is when the last of the known silver reserves run out. Then setup the algorithm to end there. People could purchase futures contracts for mined coins so as they were mined there would be someone in line to fill in the real silver. After natural silver deposits have been mostly depleted urban mining from landfill could provide silver to fill the future contracts of digital miners.
Real silver grams could also change hands as well as digital grams. The free market would find values of everything and this 'SilverGram' could compete with everything else out there, it could start off at the present price of silver LOL :rotfl: which would soon end the manipulation and the free market would ensure silver would correct back to fair value. Some have said BitCoin was gold 2.0, but this SilverGram really idea could be.
It would be possible to protect your privacy by instead of digitally transacting withdraw the silvergrams and physically hand them to the individual you are doing the means of exchange with. Monetary PM's are a very private way only you know how and when and how much you are saving or spending, if you want the privacy. At a time when almost every purchase made or asset saved indeed almost every transaction made is then available to corporations and governments, using monetary PMs privately between parties as an alternative to currency becomes increasingly attractive. The idea that Bitcoin and other digital currencies are anonymous is wrong, but one that a lot of people get caught up in. It's like cash that comes with a register of all previous owners. Not names but computer code that tracks every moment forever. That code can then expose individuals and all their associates. Monetary PM's physically not digitally changing hands are the only 100% private way to transact.
All it takes is one wipe out scare and Bitcoin is in free-fall. Anything stored on the internet in servers can be hunted down and eradicated or corrupted. How are you going to prove how many bitcoins you had when they vanish in to thin air. And who are you going to prove it to? If real silver is stored in a box and is redeemable for every silvergram transaction the system could not vanish into thin air like Bitcoin could where it came from.

So there is this new e-gold and GoldMoney similar. There have been others and there will be more using gold. Its never been done on a large international scale with silver before. James Turk's GoldMoney does have the option of silvergrams along with gold but what I propose is a decentralized system the same as BitCoin but backed by silver.
Anyone could set up a depository anywhere in the world and be linked in to the SilverGram system and charge a little (Like 0.1% of the silvergram transaction) for any transaction to cover costs. Still works out cheaper than what retailers have to pay to accept credit cards. But the fact that digitalgrams are redeemable for real grams at any time should deter the digital supply expanding more than the real supply. People could choose to pay with real grams of silver for free or digital for a small charge which the retailer would pay same as at the moment with credit cards.
This silvergram system I suggested or a tri-metalic system of the three monetary metals gold, silver and copper could compete with everything else out there and let the free market decide.

opinions4u

Satoshi wrote: »

What will kill BitCoin?...the return of FAITH in currencies! The central planners have had a plan in the works for decades to return to our Constitutional form of money using physical gold and silver. They know there is no stopping the monetary cycle repeating. YES coins - but YES ALSO to an electronic form of gold and silver coin that is 100% redeemable for monetary precious metal at any bank. It will have the convenience of Bitcoin but will be "Legal Tender" and be both backed and redeemable in gold and silver coin. You could either pay with grams of real silver or digital grams on your card or phone which are backed by real silver.
How's that for competition BitCoin?! Its going to be bitcoin 2.0 exactly the same as bitcoin but just adding a safety feature that means it cant go to nothing like bitcoin can and probably will. The Bitcoin symbol is a B with two lines going through it up and down '฿'. I propose a competing currency to BitCoin simply called 'SilverGram'. It is exactly what it says it is. A divisible gram of silver. The symbol could be similar to the dollar symbol $ but with two lines going up and down through the 'S' just like the bitcoin '฿' symbol.

The present dollar symbol with one line going through it comes from silver anyway, from the days of the silver certificate, but the US $ dollar is no longer is backed by silver. The 'silvergram' currency would also be money by true definition, unlike bitcoin which is not money but just currency. The 'silvergram' competing monetary system could compete with everything else out there and be valued at the historical norm about a tenth of an ounce or about 3 'silvergrams' an average 12hr days wage. This is the true value of silver for thousands of years. So hourly rates would be measured in milligrams depending on the work and how skilled or whatever. The freemarket would find correct values for everything on its own. It could work exactly the same as bitcoin but also be backed by real grams of silver. For smaller transactions even 0.1 milligrams increments could be used digitally (transferring ownership of serial numbers of 0.1 miligrams or 0.001grams of real silver) or real grams of silver could be exchanged in any form just as has been done for thousands of years. But now it could be digital for ease of use. All that matters is its backed by 999 fine silver.
This 'SilverGram' competing currency idea could work exactly the same as BitCoin with the addition it is backed by real money - Silver.
There could be official depositories around the world and expand in numbers as the idea takes off. Each depository would charge a small amount to cover costs for each transaction (just like bitcoin does) and have boxes 1Kg - 10 KG full of silver in any form but each box with serial numbers. The computer would be able to digitally change ownership of a percentage of the grams of silver in each box, right down to 0.0001% in any form coins or bars of any size or shape, all that matters is grams of 999 silver. It would even be possible to pay 0.1 of a digital miligram of silver for small transactions. Or it would be possible to 1KG transact silver digitally. You would have the option of taking possession of your real silvergrams at anytime.
You could have the "future digital" portion of the currency be digitally mined the same way as bitcoin. Then estimate a realistic number of grams of mineable silver. Currently estimated to be 17 years worth left. This is when the last of the known silver reserves run out. Then setup the algorithm to end there. People could purchase futures contracts for mined coins so as they were mined there would be someone in line to fill in the real silver. After natural silver deposits have been mostly depleted urban mining from landfill could provide silver to fill the future contracts of digital miners.
Real silver grams could also change hands as well as digital grams. The free market would find values of everything and this 'SilverGram' could compete with everything else out there, it could start off at the present price of silver LOL :rotfl: which would soon end the manipulation and the free market would ensure silver would correct back to fair value. Some have said BitCoin was gold 2.0, but this SilverGram really idea could be.
It would be possible to protect your privacy by instead of digitally transacting withdraw the silvergrams and physically hand them to the individual you are doing the means of exchange with. Monetary PM's are a very private way only you know how and when and how much you are saving or spending, if you want the privacy. At a time when almost every purchase made or asset saved indeed almost every transaction made is then available to corporations and governments, using monetary PMs privately between parties as an alternative to currency becomes increasingly attractive. The idea that Bitcoin and other digital currencies are anonymous is wrong, but one that a lot of people get caught up in. It's like cash that comes with a register of all previous owners. Not names but computer code that tracks every moment forever. That code can then expose individuals and all their associates. Monetary PM's physically not digitally changing hands are the only 100% private way to transact.
All it takes is one wipe out scare and Bitcoin is in free-fall. Anything stored on the internet in servers can be hunted down and eradicated or corrupted. How are you going to prove how many bitcoins you had when they vanish in to thin air. And who are you going to prove it to? If real silver is stored in a box and is redeemable for every silvergram transaction the system could not vanish into thin air like Bitcoin could where it came from.

So there is this new e-gold and GoldMoney similar. There have been others and there will be more using gold. Its never been done on a large international scale with silver before. James Turk's GoldMoney does have the option of silvergrams along with gold but what I propose is a decentralized system the same as BitCoin but backed by silver.
Anyone could set up a depository anywhere in the world and be linked in to the SilverGram system and charge a little (Like 0.1% of the silvergram transaction) for any transaction to cover costs. Still works out cheaper than what retailers have to pay to accept credit cards. But the fact that digitalgrams are redeemable for real grams at any time should deter the digital supply expanding more than the real supply. People could choose to pay with real grams of silver for free or digital for a small charge which the retailer would pay same as at the moment with credit cards.
This silvergram system I suggested or a tri-metalic system of the three monetary metals gold, silver and copper could compete with everything else out there and let the free market decide.

Did anybody read this?

Perelandra

opinions4u wrote: »

Did anybody read this?

Did I miss anything?

brendon

You have a misconception about how currency works. Its value is not based on gold or silver. Currency is in itself a market -- the flow of currency is what determines its value -- physical currency and Bitcoins alike. The price of goods is determined by people's willingness to pay for those goods. Foreign exchange rates are determined by people's willingness to pay for the currency. Your cash might say "I promise to pay the bearer..." but that is a completely empty and meaningless statement -- there's not any gold "backing it up". (And it's good that there's not -- suppose we discovered a way to cheaply synthesise gold!)

Satoshi

I would more trust something real than quark or bitcoin

http://blog.e-gold.com/

Satoshi

In the great depression Bill still says there were also lots (over 3000) of competing currencies sprang up and that's exactly whats happening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIkpZ73GMG4

He says even if they shut down the internet to kill crypto we could launch our own satellites. Yeah right.

He says it doesnt matter which crypto to buy just get in. Does he not know any teenager with a PC can make a bitcoin competitor in 3 days? Sounds like he is desperately pumping this thing.

sabretoothtigger

Black Friday sale on Gold ?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-to-get-100-discount-on-an-ounce-of-gold-2013-12-04?link=mw_story_world

Why does a lower price put people off buying assets which in theory arent changing value that rapidly