Smart Parking/Town And City Parking Charge

no1wf

I've just received a letter from Smart Parking for a Parking Charge for £30 (£60 after 2 weeks) for parking in a retail car park where it was free for 2 hours but I overstayed by 17mins 55 seconds

I've only been driving for a few years, never had anything like this before but after reading a few threads on here I imagine a lot of people are going to tell me to ignore it. I'm sure you can understand that being told you've done something and to pay £30, to sit and ignore it sort of doesn't sit well, you wonder what could happen later on.

I don't think I can appeal as I was genuinely late, we had been to car boot sales and wanted to wait for GAME to open to return something (11am) and after a look around and a walk back to the car it was longer than expected.

Looking at the place I parked the sign says:

A Civil Penalty Charge Notice of £40 will be issued in the following circumstances:
- Parking over 2 hours
- Parking is a disabled bay without displaying a valid disabled badge
- Obstructive Parking

Which is a bit confusing, is it £40 or £30?

I thought it would be okay we were only a little late but it was all captured by cameras.

I suppose I'm just looking for proof really that I don't need to pay it, they have no authority, nothing will come of it etc.

nigelbb

Does it really say

A Civil Penalty Charge Notice of £40

?

You do realise that this is not a fine but a speculative invoice? What loss do you think they have suffered? Why should you pay this charge?

Do some reading up on this forum about appeals & POPLA

no1wf

nigelbb wrote: »

Does it really say ?

You do realise that this is not a fine but a speculative invoice? What loss do you think they have suffered? Why should you pay this charge?

Do some reading up on this forum about appeals & POPLA

The sign in the car park says that, but my letter says 'Parking Charge Notice'

I'm doing some reading now on pepipoo.com, I understand I'm to reply asking for proof as to who the driver was, but I'm not sure if I write this in the appeal section or in writing. Pepipoo then says 'Should they be unable to prove who the driver was or unwilling then I would suggest that you write to them telling them never to contact you again.' But what if they do write back with a name?

I'm not sure if I should ignore it only to get all the debt recovery letters and end up having to write to them in the end, or write now, when can I write to POPLA as they seem to be the ones that can stop them contacting me.

The way I see it they have incurred no losses as the parking is free, and the dign says £40 but now they are asking for £30 so it is not clear. Is this right?

nigelbb

I don't know what you have been reading on pepipoo but you seem to have got hold of the wrong end of the stick.

You have received a letter through the post (a Notice To Keeper) but no notice was left on your car (notice To Driver). Only the driver is possibly responsible for the parking charge but under the Protection oF Freedoms Act 2012 Private Parking Companies may under certain limited conditions hold the registered keeper of the vehicle responsible for unpaid parking charges (this does not mean that the RK is responsible or required to pay them any more than the driver). However to enforce RK liability the PPC has to jump through various hoops & most fail e.g. the dates are important - where no ticket is left on the car then the NTK must be received within 14 days (actually received not juts posted within 14 days). The PPC must also abide by the British Parking Association Code of Practice & that sign is in clear breachh of :-

14 Misrepresentation of authority
14.1 You must give clear information to the public about what
parking activities are allowed and what is unauthorised.
You must not misrepresent to the public that your
parking control and enforcement work is carried out
under the statutory powers of the police or any other
public authority. You will be breaching the Code if you
suggest to the public that you are providing parking
enforcement under statutory authority.
14.2 You must not use terms which imply that parking is
being managed, controlled and enforced under statutory
authority. This includes using terms such as ‘fine’, ‘penalty'
or ‘penalty charge notice’

There is loads of other stuff but here is some reading for you
http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/BPA_CodeofPractice_2012_v2_March2013.pdf
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/9155/guidance-unpaid-parking-charges.pdf
http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/

You need to challenge the PPC & when they inevitably reject that you will take the case to the "independent" appeals body POPLA where you will win but only if you prepare a strong case using the information to be found here & on pepipoo.

BTW When you challenge the charge do not confirm/deny who was driving. The PPC do not know who the driver was & cannot unless you tell them. If they do not satisfy the requirements of POFA they cannot chase the RK but only the driver (who they don't know).

no1wf

nigelbb wrote: »

I don't know what you have been reading on pepipoo but you seem to have got hold of the wrong end of the stick.

You have received a letter through the post (a Notice To Keeper) but no notice was left on your car (notice To Driver). Only the driver is possibly responsible for the parking charge but under the Protection oF Freedoms Act 2012 Private Parking Companies may under certain limited conditions hold the registered keeper of the vehicle responsible for unpaid parking charges (this does not mean that the RK is responsible or required to pay them any more than the driver). However to enforce RK liability the PPC has to jump through various hoops & most fail e.g. the dates are important - where no ticket is left on the car then the NTK must be received within 14 days (actually received not juts posted within 14 days). The PPC must also abide by the British Parking Association Code of Practice & that sign is in clear breachh of :-



There is loads of other stuff but here is some reading for you
http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/BPA_CodeofPractice_2012_v2_March2013.pdf
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/9155/guidance-unpaid-parking-charges.pdf
http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/

You need to challenge the PPC & when they inevitably reject that you will take the case to the "independent" appeals body POPLA where you will win but only if you prepare a strong case using the information to be found here & on pepipoo.

BTW When you challenge the charge do not confirm/deny who was driving. The PPC do not know who the driver was & cannot unless you tell them. If they do not satisfy the requirements of POFA they cannot chase the RK but only the driver (who they don't know).

So to challenge the PPC I do it through the appeal section on their site? I'm just not sure what to say

nigelbb

no1wf wrote: »

So to challenge the PPC I do it through the appeal section on their site? I'm just not sure what to say

Then start reading some of the documents that I provided links to & recent threads here & on pepipoo. It doesn't help you or the forum of someone else just churns out a response for you.

Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

no1wf

nigelbb wrote: »

Then start reading some of the documents that I provided links to & recent threads here & on pepipoo. It doesn't help you or the forum of someone else just churns out a response for you.

I just want to make sure what I will say is correct and I'm not just writing things that will make no odds lol

- ask for proof of who the driver was
- misrepresentation of authority, using penalty/penalty charge notice and the abbreviation PCN
- sign in the car park and the amount I'm being asked to pay are completely different and confusing
- smart parking have incurred no losses as the car park was free anyway
- my letter does not say whether a notice to the driver was given either to the driver or placed on the vehicle, or that the driver is liable for the parking charge and the amount and that it has not been paid in full

therefore I request that the charge be revoked

Is that about right? But obviously worded better lol and then after a refusal I say the same thing to POPLA but with more detail?

nigelbb

Don't worry about who the driver was. They have clocked the registration number of your car on CCTV then got the keeper details from the DVLA.

It's really not too important what you write to them (other than not admitting that you were the driver) as they will almost inevitably reject it. In some cases if you can prove that you were a customer of the shops in a retail park they may be obliged to cancel the charge but obviously that doesn't apply in your case.

no1wf

nigelbb wrote: »

Don't worry about who the driver was. They have clocked the registration number of your car on CCTV then got the keeper details from the DVLA.

It's really not too important what you write to them (other than not admitting that you were the driver) as they will almost inevitably reject it. In some cases if you can prove that you were a customer of the shops in a retail park they may be obliged to cancel the charge but obviously that doesn't apply in your case.

If it's not important then what do I say? It's meant to be an appeal so surely I have to give some reasons?

fisherjim

no1wf wrote: »

If it's not important then what do I say? It's meant to be an appeal so surely I have to give some reasons?

It doesn't matter what you say, they will reject it, and I think you are treating them with too much credence, they are not authorities but thieving scammers only after cash.
Tell them that their signs do not conform to the BPA code of practice, or you are an alien from out of space so are exempt and you will not be paying them this speculative invoice.
Your intention should be to get a POPLA code from them (which will cost them money) and make a proper appeal to POPLA which someone on here will help you with.
You will win POPLA with the right advice and wording, from those that know.
But don't do it alone, no one on here wants any money going to these bullies!

no1wf

fisherjim wrote: »

It doesn't matter what you say, they will reject it, and I think you are treating them with too much credence, they are not authorities but thieving scammers only after cash.
Tell them that their signs do not conform to the BPA code of practice, or you are an alien from out of space so are exempt and you will not be paying them this speculative invoice.
Your intention should be to get a POPLA code from them (which will cost them money) and make a proper appeal to POPLA which someone on here will help you with.
You will win POPLA with the right advice and wording, from those that know.
But don't do it alone, no one on here wants any money going to these bullies!

Oh I see! I'd gathered from the info I'd read that they have no legal right and are just trying to make money but didn't realise I didn't really have to be serious about what I say lol