My first ever ticket!

Turnip1

Hello All,

Another newbie here and I have now received my first ever Parking Notice from UKCPS.
I note that the general consensus is to ignore these but the fact that this company seems to go all the way to court has pushed me to seek some re-assurances that Im doing the right thing.

I parked (and paid) in a private car-park but got stuck in work and overstayed the ticket time by around 20 minutes.

I've been back to the car park just to check a few things which I might be able to use in an appeal and all I have are
1) there are no 'contract' signs anywhere near the paystation
2) The only one I actually passed was on a bit of flimsy cardboard at the entrance of the carpark which you would hardly see in a moving car anyway.
3) the other signs are so far away you wouldn't be able to read them unless you were stood right next to them

I haven't got much else in my defense apart from that. If this does go all the way would anyone be able to help me with an appeal.

Sorry if you've heard all this before, this is my first ever ticket so I want to make sure I'm following the right processes

Many Thanks for any help

Coupon-mad

General consensus is moving more towards appealing if in England/Wales, and using the POPLA stage to kick sand in the PPC's face at their own expense!

See this thread, bluealpaca has learned to draft a simple appeal and send it off, also stating that they WILL go to POPLA over the matter and will require production of the contract with the landowner among the evidence:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4489923

It doesn't matter too much what you say in your appeal to UKCPS except I would NEVER NEVER make any admission. Word it carefully.

DO NOT say you were delayed, do not apologise nor accept any fault. Bluealpaca's simple appeal is a good example as it doesn't even try to explain the situation, just basically says 'illegal penalty, I'll take you to POPLA...' in so many words.

Most importantly, when you get a POPLA form and verification code, do not go it alone, do not just fire off the same rubbish appeal! Get help here with your appeal wording (maybe by pm if you want, I can help you word it at the time, but no need yet!).

Stroma

I concur with Coupon with this, simple appeal initially to see if Peter Haswell UKCPS office manager wants to play. Please be wary of anyone trying to help you via private message with a post count below a few hundred posts, said office manager posts here under aliases and is likely to be reading this in the morning.

BASFORDLAD

I am going to disagree with both coupon and stroma on this one, esp being ukcps

They wil quite happily show the contract as its very basic and they seem to have no qualms showing it, if you do popla may well try it on with court ( what with being haswell), I would go down the ignore route,

If you do get genuine court papers ill sort a defence to see off that twerp hasswell

Stroma

He may show the contract, but would that show they have the right to offer parking in light of vcs v hmrc ? I doubt it. Still it's up to the OP to decide what to do.

BASFORDLAD

Oh yes their choice,his contract will show the right to issue invoices which is all shona would be interested in.

Guys_Dad

BASFORDLAD wrote: »

Oh yes their choice,his contract will show the right to issue invoices which is all shona would be interested in.

From vcs-v-Ibbotson (not a legal precedent case)

Are you aware of the British Parking Association Code of Practice? It says, page 6, clause 6,
"Under the Code you must have written authorisation of a land owner or his appointed agent before you can carry out parking control and enforcement of the land in question. The authorisation must say that the land owner requires you to keep to the Code of Practice."

Do Haswell's contracts say that, by the way?

BASFORDLAD

From what I can remember yes

trisontana

Do those "contract" signs say that if you stay for over a certain time you "agree" to pay a certain amount? If so, is there a maximum time stated which you get for that payment? The reason I ask is that similar signs give no upper time limit. So, in theory, once you have paid that sum of money you can park there for ever.

Also, is there any means to pay that amount up-front and on site? If not, then that sum of money appears to be a deterrent and not a proper parking fee and hence a penalty.

Guys_Dad

BASFORDLAD wrote: »

From what I can remember yes

OK. Rarely disagree with c-m, but in this case, I think the generic appeal letter referred to here http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=4489923 isn't the best route.

What do we know? Shona doesn't accept the unfair penalty argument. She works on the principle that if the contract gives the authority, then the PPC wins if they can prove it in their contract, all other things being equal. Assuming UKCPS are confident enough to send a copy of their contracts out, we need to believe that they have the wording on that point to satisfy POPLA, although a court has different criteria and may reject it.

But in this case, according to Turnip1's OP, it seems clear that the signs are non compliant. To prove that, a little bit of legwork and a decent camera would be needed, along with a map of the site showing where Turnip was parked and where the signs were. As well as, of course, checking they were BPA compliant, and that there are as many signs as in the contract.

This is the defence that should win at POPLA, not the preferred "Contract doesn't give you the right unless you can prove it".

Turnip1

Hi, the actual sign (abeit very small) does seem to cover all bases with regards to what the penalty will be, what it applies to (ie. displaying a valid ticket) and who the company are. For what its worth, I am going to get photographs of the one of the entrances to the car park which has no signage, and the paystation which also has no sign and also a photo of the nearest sign to the paystation which shows that it is too far away to be read.

Thank-you for all your responses. Im more inclined to go down the non-compliance route and hope they go away rather than start rustling feathers by contacting the firm directly. Ill see what happens once the sequence of letters has passed.

I know most of the experienced members on here wouldn't pay these firms a penny but I just feel that if their penalties were more in line with what the council charged (ie £30) Id probably just pay to avoid all this hassle. As it stands I can't afford their bloated £100+ penalty so am having to find a way around dealing with their charge.