Penalty Fare not completed correctly - chance of appeal?

Hi,

I've noticed that a lot of people don't have any luck appealing train penalty fares through the supposedly independent, yet clearly biased IPFAS, so instead of wasting trying to win over the affections of employees with rejection quotas to fill, im looking at technicalities.

The notice reads 'all notices must be completed in block capitals' - whereas mine is not, so does this contract still bind, or is it, and the whole fare, now void - or something to that effect.

Any help would be hugely appreciated! :)
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Comments

  • wealdroam
    wealdroam Posts: 19,181 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Combo Breaker
    Hi Mattmattmatt.

    You haven't told us whether the train company was right to issue you the Penalty Fare Notice.

    Also, could it be that very few appeals are successful because the train companies are quite good at catching the right people?

    Just an idea.
  • LimeLight
    LimeLight Posts: 8,038 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post
    No, you still have to pay the fine.

    Don't like the fine, don't travel the line (without a valid ticket)
    just passing through.... Nothing to see....
  • Stigy
    Stigy Posts: 1,581 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper Combo Breaker First Post
    edited 23 November 2012 at 5:01PM
    No chance. That's not going to win you an appeal I'm afraid, as long the notice was filled out correctly in that all details are correct, and even then, as long as the TOC can prove it was you that was issued the notice, they can cancel it and serve a summons if necessary. Best bet is to explain to us why the notice was issued so we can advise you of any genuine reason why you shouldn't have been issued one. I agree that may not be what you want to hear, but it's what we need.
  • ICRAS believe it or not have to follow rules when upholding/rejecting an appeal, if as you stated
    supposedly independent, yet clearly biased IPFAS, so instead of wasting trying to win over the affections of employees with rejection quotas to fill

    If they were to do this and the complainer then took the complaint/appeal to the higher level ie passenger focus or the Office of the Rail Regulator and the appeal was found to be incorrectly handled then ICRAS would be fined by those bodies and a lot more than a £20 Penalty fare.
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  • Stigy
    Stigy Posts: 1,581 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper Combo Breaker First Post
    ICRAS believe it or not have to follow rules when upholding/rejecting an appeal, if as you stated

    If they were to do this and the complainer then took the complaint/appeal to the higher level ie passenger focus or the Office of the Rail Regulator and the appeal was found to be incorrectly handled then ICRAS would be fined by those bodies and a lot more than a £20 Penalty fare.
    I see what you're saying, but the fact that IRCAS have 'ties' to at least one TOC suggests they are far from independent to most :beer:
  • Hey guys,

    Thanks for all the feedback!

    To clarify the situation:
    Since buying my railcard a year ago, I have booked 52 journeys through Southern Railway (equalling £419.20), and completed 51 of them successfully WITH my railcard.
    However on the ONE occasion that I forget it, I am issued a fine of £49.20, so you can understand my bitterness.
    Especially now that I have found out that the IPFAS has inner financial motivation to not return my money.
    £49.20 is so far beyond any sense of reasonability as a punishment, as £19 is the price of an on-the-day single fare without railcard, so it makes no sense to issue me such a high fine, apart from when you consider the commission for the inspectors, and the millions they make every year pulling this scam...
    Stigy wrote: »
    as long as the TOC can prove it was you that was issued the notice, they can cancel it and serve a summons if necessary

    How could they do this? If they had no way of doing so, would this invalidate their fine?

    Thanks guys...
  • pinkshoes
    pinkshoes Posts: 20,056 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary Photogenic First Post
    But if you were travelling and didn't have your railcard, why didn't you just buy a single for £19 instead?
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
  • timbo58
    timbo58 Posts: 1,164 Forumite
    If a PF was issued it is a strict liability offence: i.e. he was in a designated PF area without a valid ticket.
    This means ticketing staff have only 2 choices (in theory):
    1. reason to suspect deliberate avoidance: report for fare evasion
    2. no reason to suspect.... : PF
    Unless specifically stated all posts by me are my own considered opinion.
    If you don't like my opinion feel free to respond with your own.
  • opinions4u
    opinions4u Posts: 19,411 Forumite
    I suppose the train company get peed off being scammed by people claiming to have forgotten their railcard.

    I think a low / nil tolerance approach to somebody travelling on a discounted ticket without the right pass is sending out exactly the right message.
  • It's alarming to see how readily people will show allegiance to the will of a big company.
    Especially those people supposedly dedicated to battling the monopoly held upon us by big business.
    Wait until you make the mistake and forget your ticket. Then how much will you respect and uphold their policies and the system put in place 'to protect honest customers'?
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