Deposit dispute.

samwich1979

I know there are plenty of threads about deposit diputes on here but nothing answers my particular problem.

Our AST on a rented house started on 28th February this year and ended in August after 6 months. We then went periodic whilst we decided whether to move as the LL was being funny about repairs etc.

We found somewhere to move to 2 weeks before September 2012 came to an end, so we wrote to our LL explaining our intention to move out on the 28th September and we would sort with the DPS for him to have our deposit to cover October whilst he got new tenants, he was fine with this and everything when very smoothly.
LL also gave us a very good reference which we were happy about and the keys were returned on 29th September as planned.

We had some mail due which we asked to be either forwarded or kept for us to pick up, this was fine with LL. But on contacting him 5 days later about this he said he couldnt get it for a few days because he had moved new tenants in already.
So we waited 5 days and asked if we could get our mail and he said he would have it waiting, it was collected no problem.

Later that evening i asked my husband should we really be giving him our full deposit back if he had only had the property empty for 5 days? Doesnt seem right that he gets rent off new tenants then £500 from us(rent was £475).
So mid-October 2012 we had our internet up and running to start the re-payment process, we asked through DPS that LL gets one weeks rent and we get the rest but he wouldnt agree. He asked for £475 and wanted us to take £25!
Bearing in mind no inventory was done between us at the start just a booklet of pictures given to us which he had done by a letting agent before we applied through him for the house, it wasnt signed by anyone. Since then a new kitchen had been fitted by the LL except for plinths which we purchased at £26 as he wanted to put 14 year old white ones back on a new brown kitchen.
We replaced toilet seat and bathroom items such as shower curtain etc and they stayed there when we left.
A plastic blind on the back window didnt function throughout our tenancy which he said was just the way we used it(!)ended up having the pole that opens it break but that was the only thing wrong which could be replaced for £30 max.
So £110 for him through DPS is more than enough.

We eventually decided to got through the Alternative Dispute Resolution to get it sorted once and for all because we were just going back and forth again and again.
The LL refuses to use this method and we think its because he knows he shouldnt be claiming rent from us when he moved new tenants in during our notice period and we/he didnt have access to our mail. Also i nearly forgot to mention that Virgin Media couldnt turn our landline off until 16th October 2012 and the LL was told this, so this means the new tenants could have used the line and run up a bill in our name for the 2 ish weeks it was still active. I dont think this was right either.

Can anyone tell us our options? and who is in the right here?
We have no contact with the LL now and legal action would cost us money we dont have.
I have contacted a solicitor for advice and im awaiting an email back.

Thanks in advance.

G_M

There are two relevant legal facts.

1) you did not give sufficient Notice. From the date you gave Notice, a full Tenancy Period was required (end Sept to end Oct) so you should have paid for October.

2) However, the above is over-ruled since the LL moved in a new tenant. The Landlord cannot claim rent from two tenants at the same time.

So you should pay rent (or have it deducted from your deposit) for the period when you stopped paying rent (end Sept I assume?) to the date the new tenants moved in (you do not say exactly what date this was - a week or so later?)

If the LL declines to use the deposit arbitration process, the alternative is for you to put in a claim via the Small Claims Court. There is a small fee for this, but you will get it back when you win.

Provided you can convince the court that new tenants moved in on xx date, you will win. What evidence do you have /can you get?

samwich1979

G_M wrote: »

There are two relevant legal facts.

1) you did not give sufficient Notice. From the date you gave Notice, a full Tenancy Period was required (end Sept to end Oct) so you should have paid for October.

2) However, the above is over-ruled since the LL moved in a new tenant. The Landlord cannot claim rent from two tenants at the same time.

So you should pay rent (or have it deducted from your deposit) for the period when you stopped paying rent (end Sept I assume?) to the date the new tenants moved in (you do not say exactly what date this was - a week or so later?)

If the LL declines to use the deposit arbitration process, the alternative is for you to put in a claim via the Small Claims Court. There is a small fee for this, but you will get it back when you win.

Provided you can convince the court that new tenants moved in on xx date, you will win. What evidence do you have /can you get?

It was about 5 days after we moved out, we moved on the Friday 28th September and they were in by the following Tuesday i think.

I had a different mobile and number until 2 weeks after we moved and this has the text on that would prove the date they moved in but it has now gone back to Vodafone, so no concrete proof but we did go down there the week after we moved in an attempt to get the mail and the new tenants refused to come out of the house and give it to us so we had to wait for the LL to collect it first. So we had seen them in the house ourselves the following week. I guess this isnt enough though.

I really dont have the money to put towards a small claim as only i earn a wage and with xmas coming up its impossible. We NEED the money back desperately and we know he doesnt as he has been receiving their rent and also we know he has enough money to buy another house to rent out as he told us of his plans when we rented his house out.

Just dont know what to do.

EDIT; we where happy to give the LL our deposit to cover Octobers rent and so was he as we knew we would be liable that was not an issue. but to move house we couldnt afford our new place AND give him rent too so we both agreed this, us in writing and him by a text but i dont have any texts now so cant prove anything.

The £110 we offered through DPS was to cover the week the house was empty,

samwich1979

I have got the LL's home address so i am going to write a letter explaining that to take two rent for one property is legally wrong and if he does not accept our offer of one weeks rent via DPS i have no choice but to seek legal advice and take him to the small claims court.

Hope it works!

G_M

samwich1979 wrote: »

I have got the LL's home address so i am going to write a letter explaining that to take two rent for one property is legally wrong and if he does not accept our offer of one weeks rent via DPS i have no choice but to seek legal advice and take him to the small claims court.

Hope it works!

That is in any event the 1st step in legal action, so good luck with that. Put "Letter before Action" at the top of your letter.

Are there no neighbours who would know when the new tenants moved in? Witness or witness statement?

Will the new tenants confirm their move-in date? Let you have a copy of their tenancy agreement? Act as witness? Give you a copy of their utility bill showing date they opened account?

There are lots of ways to prove when they moved in - you just have to arrange!

Assuming the LL does not change his mind, if you stand to gain £500 by getting your deposit back, surely you can find £140 spread over 3 payments which you'll get back at the end?

If not, you'll just have to bluff and hope he backs down.

samwich1979

G_M wrote: »

That is in any event the 1st step in legal action, so good luck with that. Put "Letter before Action" at the top of your letter.

Are there no neighbours who would know when the new tenants moved in? Witness or witness statement?

Will the new tenants confirm their move-in date? Let you have a copy of their tenancy agreement? Act as witness? Give you a copy of their utility bill showing date they opened account?

There are lots of ways to prove when they moved in - you just have to arrange!

Assuming the LL does not change his mind, if you stand to gain £500 by getting your deposit back, surely you can find £140 spread over 3 payments which you'll get back at the end?

If not, you'll just have to bluff and hope he backs down.

The old lady next door may remember them moving in but as it was beginning of October im not sure she will know the date.

The tenants who moved in are strange to say the least, we knocked to ask about the mail and they didnt answer for a couple of minutes but them appeared hanging out of the bedroom window asking us what we wanted. When we said we wanted our mail as we had not long moved out they said 'speak to the landlord' and when back in!

Not to appear mean but they are young and almost certainly not paying their own rent and dont have any decent communication skills so it isnt likely we would get any info out of them as they dont seem to like answering the door!

So can you spread the small claim fee over 3 months?

G_M

Perhaps they were busy 'celebrating' their new home....?

Fees are payable at 3 points. See

Small claims court fees are detailed on the justice.gov.uk website in Form EX50 , they are as follows:

• A Fee to Start your Claim (sliding scale: £25-£100)
• A Fee to Allocate your Claim to a Court Track (£40) only payable if your claim is for more than £1500
• A Hearing Fee (sliding scale: £25-£325) payable if/when your case goes to a Hearing.

See also

What if I cannot afford to pay a court fee?

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]If you cannot afford the fee, you may be eligible for a fee remission in full or in part. The combined booklet and application form [/FONT][/FONT]‘EX160A Court Fees - Do I have to pay them?’ [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]gives all the information you need. You can get a copy from any court office or from our website www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk[/FONT][/FONT]

samwich1979

Hahahaha! :rotfl: Yes maybe there were......................

So it may not cost too much, especially if he settles out of court which im in no doubt he would because he has no clue about the legalities of renting a house.

He even admitted he asked his friends about who should sort out the mouse problem we had!

Well i will see what this letter does first and go from there.

Top advice G_M thank you!

G_M

Fingers crossed.

But if he waits till you started the court action and made the 1st court payment, and then offers to settle, make sure he pays for the court fees you've forked out.....

samwich1979

G_M wrote: »

Fingers crossed.

But if he waits till you started the court action and made the 1st court payment, and then offers to settle, make sure he pays for the court fees you've forked out.....

Definitely wouldn't let him get away with it trust me!:D

samwich1979

Just to let you know the letter to my old LL worked.

He settled through the DPS as we asked after i threatened him by letter with court action.

He gets a weeks rent and we take the rest.

We will be £390 better off tomorrow! :T