London. Housing benefit claimants shifted outside the capital

Pobby

Hopefully loads of work in Jaywick.

N1AK

robin_banks wrote: »

These areas also happen to be where there are less jobs. As an increasing number of HB claimants happen to be in work, many could find themselves in the position of having to give up a job......

If they're in a job they can afford to commute like millions of non-benefit receiving workers. I know couples with household incomes in excess of £70k who both commute to London from ~1hr away. Why? Because after rent etc they're better off commuting and can live in a reasonably sized house.

What I don't understand about all the protest is that housing in much of London is already unaffordable to most people earning less than the median wage yet somehow that's fine but god forbid that people who don't even have a wage can't afford to live there!

ukcarper

N1AK wrote: »

If they're in a job they can afford to commute like millions of non-benefit receiving workers. I know couples with household incomes in excess of £70k who both commute to London from ~1hr away. Why? Because after rent etc they're better off commuting and can live in a reasonably sized house.

What I don't understand about all the protest is that housing in much of London is already unaffordable to most people earning less than the median wage yet somehow that's fine but god forbid that people who don't even have a wage can't afford to live there!

It's a lot easier finding £200 a month out of £4000 a month compared to £900 a month.

grizzly1911

N1AK wrote: »

If they're in a job they can afford to commute like millions of non-benefit receiving workers. I know couples with household incomes in excess of £70k who both commute to London from ~1hr away. Why? Because after rent etc they're better off commuting and can live in a reasonably sized house.

What I don't understand about all the protest is that housing in much of London is already unaffordable to most people earning less than the median wage yet somehow that's fine but god forbid that people who don't even have a wage can't afford to live there!

Perhaps we ought to introduce "travel benefit" for those that are moved on that basis to in part mitigate the loss of housing benefit as they certainly wouldn't be able to fund it on the LLW.

Somehow I don't think the maths would work out and even if it did they would be taking up space on the tains that does not exist and meeting themselves coming back on the commute.

They (your couples example) also commute because they don't want to live in the sort of places the majority of those on benefits have to occupy.

N1AK

ukcarper wrote: »

It's a lot easier finding £200 a month out of £4000 a month compared to £900 a month.

How insightful :rotfl: my point, which was blindingly obvious, was that if a couple with that kind of disposable income are choosing not to pay London rates then what chance does a family of 4 with a £30k income have? Yet a family of 4 with no income should get benefits that give them something they couldn't afford if they worked.

ukcarper

N1AK wrote: »

How insightful :rotfl: my point, which was blindingly obvious, was that if a couple with that kind of disposable income are choosing not to pay London rates then what chance does a family of 4 with a £30k income have? Yet a family of 4 with no income should get benefits that give them something they couldn't afford if they worked.

That family of 4 earning £30k would be entitled to some LHA and child tax credit.

We need people to do low paid jobs in London so you would need to pay a travel allowance or may be employers should paid a wage people can live on rather than letting the tax payer pick up the tab.

Graham_Devon

My stance on this is to ask what other countries do?

I've been to some places where the poor in the city are really poor, and the rich are really rich. Theres very few in the middle. But the key is, everyone pays their own way, for whatever accomodation they can afford. There are no handouts....but in equal measure, there are very few sick people and relatively few on the streets (probably more than here, granted), but it's not as if the streets are littered or anywhere close. People just get on with it due to little alternative choice.

Now, before I go on, I wouldn't want some of the working conditions I have seen there imposed here so that people take risks to feed and house their families.

But surely, with the above, IMHO seeing the pendulum swinging too far one way, the UK has the pendulum swung far to far the other way, with people on benefits in many parts of the country taking more in subsidies than that of their working peers.

Theres obviously a massive issue there. I don't think displacement on it's own sorts the solution out. Theres many things involved in a proper solution, but many of them are taboo.

Immigration for starters. That's a massive drain on the resources (and I don't mean drain in a derogatory way). Letting all and sundry buy homes as investments from all over Europe doesn't help the situation at all. Lack of rental controls means investors pile in, pusing prices up with little regard to possibe rent controls. Holiday homes with absolutely no monetry disinsentive. If we had rent controls, it's likely a lot of landlords would back out, as put simply, it won't be as good as it once was.

A living wage would be a fantastic start. As it is, housing benefit has subsidised business, and that's a growing problem, as too, have tax credits.

Every single issue needs looking at, and we had the perfect opportunity in 2008/9, but again vote buying took precidence.

Surely there is something middle of the road, but it seems absolutely no one wants to lose out and will fight their corner. Whether they be the foreign investor threatening to pull their money out, the company threatening to leave the UK, landlords threatening mass evictions and bankruptcy if rent controls are put in place. Some sides of the media shouting from the rooftops about the injustice of seemingly every god damn inconvinience, or politicians putting buying votes above every single economic and social need.

I don't know what the answer is. But I sure know something needs to be done. It's just offensive to have people on subsidies taking far more than the average working household and never having to face the stark reality of living within their means in terms of their housing costs.

It surely can't be of any coincidence that we have the highest rate of disability in the whole of the EU. Theres generous amounts of money there, whereas in other countries, it's not quite as generous, BUT there are proper helpful services in other countries, not simply money chucked at a claimant.

tomsanderson617

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

It's like the two children benefits limit proposal again. Those who want to work have to go where the work is, even if a less desirable and convenient place to live. Those on benefits have a sense of entitlement that they can live wherever they want, on the state.

When we see the BBC and Guardian protesting and publishing hard luck stories about this proposal -- if they haven't already -- we'll know for sure that it's a goodun'.

If all those on low income in London are forced to move outside then who will do all the min wage jobs in the city? Either help pay peoples rents or do not have such high rents that those on min wage could never afford them out of their own pockets.

CLAPTON

tomsanderson617 wrote: »

If all those on low income in London are forced to move outside then who will do all the min wage jobs in the city? Either help pay peoples rents or do not have such high rents that those on min wage could never afford them out of their own pockets.

-they can commute like millions of other people from cheaper areas
-the low wages may well rise in London if people can't commute and there are insufficient workers for the jobs

tomsanderson617

CLAPTON wrote: »

-they can commute like millions of other people from cheaper areas
-the low wages may well rise in London if people can't commute and there are insufficient workers for the jobs

Yes either wages have to go up to meet rents or rents come down to meet min wage without housing benefit. Its too far and cost too much to travel from outside London just for a cleaning job.