Reith Lectures - Grand Finale

Wookster

Just listened to this on Radio 4 and what a clash of views: done in Scotland, Niall Ferguson was trying to point out that the twin effects of grade inflation and the threat from the rise of booming Asia has meant that the complacent "I'm ok, we're ok" attitude is the single biggest threat to Europe.

Anyone else listen to this?

nollag2006

Reith lectures ? Radio 4?

You'll be lucky

Last time I quoted Evan Davies of Radio 4 on here, the doom-monger bears didn't know who he was.

Best to stick to comics like MoneyWeek and the Sun if you want the bears to understand

Kennyboy66

Wookster wrote: »

Just listened to this on Radio 4 and what a clash of views: done in Scotland, Niall Ferguson was trying to point out that the twin effects of grade inflation and the threat from the rise of booming Asia has meant that the complacent "I'm ok, we're ok" attitude is the single biggest threat to Europe.

Anyone else listen to this?

full transcript

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01jmxsk/features/transcript

Makes some really interesting points and how about thos one as the number of prospective University students tops 40%.

What would be better value ?

1) Spending £27k on 3 years of University doing Media Studies at Scumbag College Stoke (sorry Stoke)

2) Spending £50k on 5 years education (11-16) at a decent public school (Manchester Grammar School for example).


However his point about Harlem Sucess School and admittance by lottery is a bit bogus - and is illustrated by Freakenomics (I think).

Students whose parents put them in the lottery for the best schools do significantly better even if they don't win the raffle.
It is as much about parental motivation and expectation.

Generali

Kennyboy66 wrote: »

full transcript

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01jmxsk/features/transcript

Makes some really interesting points and how about thos one as the number of prospective University students tops 40%.

What would be better value ?

1) Spending £27k on 3 years of University doing Media Studies at Scumbag College Stoke (sorry Stoke)

2) Spending £50k on 5 years education (11-16) at a decent public school (Manchester Grammar School for example).

These days you need a post grad degree to get anywhere near a trading floor, a job that will give you a decent return on your education costs or at least can. The first trader I worked with closely had left school at 16 and worked his way up from the post room.

I'm not sure that proves anything on a second reading. I do wonder why we (in Aus as well as the UK) feel the need to send increasing numbers into tertiary education. We'll just end up like France or Germany where you need a degree to wait on tables.

Kennyboy66

Generali wrote: »

These days you need a post grad degree to get anywhere near a trading floor, a job that will give you a decent return on your education costs or at least can. The first trader I worked with closely had left school at 16 and worked his way up from the post room.

I'm not sure that proves anything on a second reading. I do wonder why we (in Aus as well as the UK) feel the need to send increasing numbers into tertiary education. We'll just end up like France or Germany where you need a degree to wait on tables.

% of school leavers (England going to University).

1960 4%
1970 6%
2010 43%

Wookster

Kennyboy66 wrote: »

% of school leavers (England going to University).

1960 4%
1970 6%
2010 43%

It certainly seems that University has taken the place of schools, and that it is not doing a very good job of it.

bugslet

I'm guessing as well that if we went back to 10% of school leavers going to uni, then there wouldn't have been the need to introduce university fees and some of the 'frillier' degrees would not exist at all.

I left school at 18 with a place at uni that I didn't take up and never regretted doing so. I've run my own business for 21 years and frequently have to endure meetings that include business graduates and their approach is purely about the bottom line. Obviously that's important, but they so often lack any idea that a business is about building relationships with your workers, your customers and suppliers and have little idea about the nuts and bolts of a business. Personally I'd rather employ someone that has had the nouse to move from the shop floor.

Does trading actually need a degree, Gen?

To go back to the OP, you only have to look at how education is emphasised beyond all else in some of the Asian countries ( sometimes to the detriment of the students) and then compare it with the UK and the way in which a good percentage of students waste their time and the teachers time to see that the I'm OK attitude starts at a young age. If you have a safety net, it's easier to lack motivation.

Will go off an read the lecture, thanks for the link Kennyboy.

Wookster

The link to iPlayer is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01jmxsk/The_Reith_Lectures_Niall_Ferguson_The_Rule_of_Law_and_Its_Enemies_2012_Civil_and_Uncivil_Societies/

Bugslet - I think a degree RE trading is more a requirement to stand out from the crowd and get the job rather than necessary to become a trader.

Generali

bugslet wrote: »

Does trading actually need a degree, Gen?

I'm not a trader but IMO I don't think so for most products.

These days you're unlikely to be given a job as a trader without a degree but that's a different matter.

CLAPTON

A few years back I was involved with selecting a candidate to work in the USA with an associated company on a two year secondment.

The interview panel all agreed that one candidate was easily the strongest person in every way.

Except that he had no degree.

The American couldn't understand how some-one could reach his level without a degree.

I tried to explain that people in the UK of his age (then about 45) often hadn't gone to Uni.

Only very reluctantly the American decided to go ahead.


I think now the UK is getting like that; even where there is no need for degree level knowledge the minimum entry qualification is now 'degree' or even first or 2.1 class degree.

glad to say the secondment was a great success from everyone's point of view.