Merkel: "More Europe"

Graham_Devon

Merkel has today urged "more europe". I.e political intergration first and foremost. In other words, what shes stating is she wants the EU to have more control over all countries within it.

She's resisted calls for the joint issuing of euro debt.

A commentator stated basically, shes stating no change, more control.

Many europeans state her plan will not work and is just piling more debt on already struggling countries.

What I'm wondering, is can Brussels really do this without asking the people themselves, i.e. Europeans? Were basically talking the united states of europe, but in this case, with one clear winner and lots of losers.

Thrugelmir

Isn't this the whole purpose of the Eurozone. Financial integration?
Either you in or out. There's no picking the bits you like and ignoring the rest.

purch

Germany want to be in total control.

That is the whole point.

Thrugelmir

purch wrote: »

Germany want to be in total control.

That is the whole point.

Someone has to show leadership.

Mrs_Bones

With leadership though comes responsibility. If the current eurozone countries were to become a United States of Europe and the poor parts of that state were in trouble then it would fall on Germany if they were the stronger part to help them. It would not be repayable bailouts either, it would be giving as part of being one nation.

Merkel seems to want the control but not the responsibility it brings. She would also find getting the notion of supporting countries like Greece for all eternity with nothing in return very hard if not impossible to sell to the Germany people, of who 49% already think entering the Euro was a mistake.

The_J

Mrs_Bones wrote: »

With leadership though comes responsibility. If the current eurozone countries were to become a United States of Europe and the poor parts of that state were in trouble then it would fall on Germany if they were the stronger part to help them. It would not be repayable bailouts either it would be giving as part of being one nation.

Merkel seems to want the control but not the responsibility it brings. She would also find getting the notion of supporting countries like Greece for all eternity with nothing in return very hard if not impossible to sell to the Germany people, of who 49% already think entering the Euro was a mistake.

Magical, I was losing all hope for this forum.

Germany needs to leave the Euro and allow it to devalue.

It will hurt the German banks....a lot....but then at least we just have to bail out the German banks rather than the Spanish ones, then the Portguese ones, then the Italian ones, then the French ones.

Graham_Devon

Mrs_Bones wrote: »

With leadership though comes responsibility. If the current eurozone countries were to become a United States of Europe and the poor parts of that state were in trouble then it would fall on Germany if they were the stronger part to help them. It would not be repayable bailouts either, it would be giving as part of being one nation.

Merkel seems to want the control but not the responsibility it brings. She would also find getting the notion of supporting countries like Greece for all eternity with nothing in return very hard if not impossible to sell to the Germany people, of who 49% already think entering the Euro was a mistake.

Exactly, its stated that Germany want to avoid a situation where it ends up shouldering the debt burden of struggling countries.

So how can they actually do this when they also want a united political approach?

RUN_RABBIT_RUN

of course we'll be asked our opinion! and when we say no, we'll be asked again. and again. and again until we say yes.

european democracy!

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

The_J wrote: »

Germany needs to leave the Euro and allow it to devalue.

That's exactly what needs to happen.

The problem is, Germany can't afford to leave the Euro.

Not only would their banks take a huge hit, so would the German state itself. And the economy would collapse if they didn't have the competitive advantage of a devalued currency.

Mrs_Bones

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Exactly, its stated that Germany want to avoid a situation where it ends up shouldering the debt burden of struggling countries.

So how can they actually do this when they also want a united political approach?

How is perfectly simple, European politicians chose not to live in the world of reality, just their own little dream bubble.

In this dream bubble they choose to create their perfect currency. In reality it was economically flawed but they choose to ignore that.

It is also in this dream world they will try to create some semblance of a combined but at the same time one state country. The messy realities of the people of different nations not excepting this will not be allowed to interfere with the dream.

Don't forget we are talking about a group of people who have just spent over 50 million on creating a museum 'A House of European History' intended to promote an awareness of European identity. This history of Europe has as it's year zero, a starting point of 1946. As an EU conceived idea, they decided that they would exclude any exhibit that they could not all agree on. Nobody could reach agreement on how to portray World War 2 so they just skipped it, hence European history will now start from 1946. In a further effort to airbrush WW2 away they have renamed it as the 'European Civil War' for the few brief times it is mention. Such acts of delusion are prime examples of how the Euro elite live in their own little la la land.

grizzly1911

Mrs_Bones wrote: »

Such acts of delusion are prime examples of how the Euro elite live in their own little la la land.

Not to mention year on year increases in EU budget a t~ 5-6%pa whilst the majority of countries are in depression.