Help needed. Employer is making my working life difficult.

hoggiebear

Hi everyone

I suffer from a long term condition called Endometriosis. I am currently awaiting an operation to improve the symptoms of my condition and continue to work, when I can. However, the condition does have a tendency to flare up causing me to miss work for 2-3 days every now and then.

Upon my last return to work interview in January 2012, it was suggested by my manager that instead of taking time off as 'sick leave' I could take it out of my annual holiday entitlement or toil time (which had to be worked prior to taking the time off - I could not take negative toil). The reason for this agreement was so that my illness would not impact the business, would not bring my total number of absences passed the 3 in 12 months stage and would not impact me with regards to working additional hours.

I agreed to this and have worked up substantial toil along with overtime since January.

On Wednesday 2nd May I began to feel unwell and knew that the endo was going to flare up. I therefore asked my manager if I could take the Thursday as annual leave and she agreed. She then went on to advise that if I felt I needed Friday as a holiday I was just to contact the department sick line to request this. My manager has been very understanding.

However, I called the sick line this morning to request a further days annual leave and they agreed to process my request but then I was transferred to another manager within my department, as my manager was off.

This manager said that he could see from my planner that I was due to come in for overtime over the bank holiday weekend and that due to the nature of my absence I could no longer do this. Although I didn't intend to go in Saturday or Sunday I was hoping that if I felt up to it I would be able to work overtime on the bank holiday Monday.

When I mentioned the agreement I had with manager to work extra hours when I can, he said well it's up to you but I can't guarantee that you will be paid overtime or get the time back as toil because as far as I'm concerned you're off sick and shouldn't be allowed to come in for overtime.

I'm a bit confused as to what my rights are here. I could understand his attitude had I taken the time off as 'sick leave' but I've actually used 2 days out of my annual holiday entitlement, which I now feel I have wasted.

Had I phoned in sick for the 2 days I would have had 2 days off, would still have been paid full pay but would not have been allowed to come in for overtime - which I know you can't do because; if you've not worked your contractual hours that week then you can't work overtime. I understand that.

However, the way I have done it (which was the suggested option by my manager) I have lost 2 days from my holiday entitlement and I'm still being penalised in line with the sickness policy because I still don't get to work overtime.

I feel like I am being taken for a mug.

Any advice? I don't want to go in and not get paid but at the same time I could really use the overtime/toil.

InsideInsurance

What is the "o" in your toil? Normally it is Time In Lieu so TIL or TiL

Secondly, when is your manager due back in? It sounds like you have a good working relationship with her and so it is probably more her call than the other person you happened to speak to.

Irrespective of how things are being manipulated in terms of using up holiday -v- TiL -v- sick leave it ultimately is the case you are off sick and just avoiding the disciplinary/ career history black marks by counting it as something other than sick and evidently saving the company some pennies at the same time.

To the best of my knowledge there is no legal requirement for any specified notice period for cancellation of overtime. If the company doesnt feel certain enough that you will be back in work for a patch of overtime they are entitled to cancel it and give it to someone else to ensure they have enough staff in to cover the shift.

Sambucus_Nigra

InsideInsurance wrote: »

What is the "o" in your toil? Normally it is Time In Lieu so TIL or TiL

Time [what] in lieu? I've only ever know of this as TOIL - Time OFF in Lieu.

Emmzi

I would be suspicious of "well enough to work when it's double time." I think giving you flexitime, which is what this TOIL is all about, is a fair reasonable adjustment and I probably wouldn't be kicking off.

princessdon

I don't see how your "employer is making your life difficult" - they really do sound very very accomodating TBH.

Flexi/TOIL/AL are very different and have different rules.

Eg in your situation - I couldn't take Flexi (max 3 hours per day), TOIL needs to be agreed 3 days in advance and AL 14 days in advance, so it would be sick.

I really think that it's not in your interests to persue this as I suspect the informal arrangement that you have with your normal manager is due to end and they they may really make your working life difficult.

wapow

You had an agreement with YOUR manager. Another manager is not their to accomodate the agreement YOUR manager made with YOU.

Your employer is not being difficult, however that particular manager is just doing his job. Simple as.

In the call centre environment you work in, you will get a hot load of managers all with their own little niggles and ins and outs for their faves.

Youre lucky to have a manager who has said you can do what you want.

You should have had their number already stored in your phone so you can ring your manager directly first, then the sickline.

Also, to have off mid-week+weekend, then to say

"oh i might come in monday though"
(When its triple pay or time off in lieu)

Really truly doesnt help your case at all. Plus if another manager starts to question YOUR managers actions (such as the agreement you and your manager had)

Then most likely that agreement will stop because your manager may be under pressure especially if they suck up to the more veteran or strong minded managers in the worklace.

Stop being a drama queen. Analyse the situation logically.

PS - Im not insinuating that youre taking tie off and then going in on Monday for the money or time off benefit. To be honest if i was in your position thats a smart move because you are using this time to heal and then youre going back in again when it counts. However, most people just dont see it like that.

hoggiebear

It's not an informal arrangement. I have it in writing, from a formal return to work meeting, that my manager has agreed I can take annual leave rather than sickness. Both she and I have signed the document.

It just doesn't seem right that they are not putting my absence through as sickness but are still imposing the other aspects of the sickness policy e.g. not being allowed to work additional hours outwith my contracted days.

It's either all or nothing, surely.

It just seems that by allowing me to take the time as annual leave it's benefitting them more than me, which isn't what the health and wellbeing policy is about. This way they don't have all the paperwork, meetings etc that go hand in hand with absence and they get me to use up my annual holiday entitlement.

custardy

its fairly common that staff can't take sick time and then use OT to make up the earnings etc.
If you wish to push the matter,then you may find they will simply follow the sickmess procedure.
sounds to me like a fairly accoodating employer tbh.

wapow

If you have a medical note for your condition.

a.) Forget about the 3 strike policy. its bullcrap. it doesnt apply to you.

b.) If youve signed a document to say as such, then ring the sickline and say so. Tell them you have signed a business ducument which states blabla and you will adhere to it. If you (other manager) has any issues with that, then to take it up with your manager.

c.) If you have been guaranteed overtime by YOUR manager, then come in and work it. Get your manager to fix the pay etc. Make sure you let work know that you will be coming into work.

d.) You signed something without thinking about it. You can discuss with your manager to have this revoked.

WHY your manager asked you to take it out of your holidays.

a.) If you take your sick as holiday, then you get full pay.
b.) After 3 incidents of sickness, you can only get paid a certain amount for sickness, not the full amount.
c.) You should have asked these questions to your manager instead of over here as each company policy is different.
d.) Pull out your employee handbook and read the sick leave section and how the pay is reduced (if its reduced).

People have already mentioned your employer/manager is rather accomodating yet you dont seem to get the message. READ first, then comment.

ktothema

OP - this may just come down to a simple question. If you'd taken annual leave for those two days as normal planned leave, would you have been allowed the overtime? In places I've worked that allowed overtime, you wouldn't have got it if you were sick or chose to take leave just before.

If your company allows it, try to talk to your manager at some point. Other managers often don't understand, contract alterations or not.

princessdon

Also to add - can you take AL without notice or authorisation in your contract?

If you are going for the all or nothing approach (and yes I do see where you are coming from, seems they are picking and chosing the parts of this amendment to suit), look at all angles.

I'd hate to see this arrangement - that clearly suits you well most of the time to end for the sake of a day's OT.