Is Paypals 21 day hold Legal?

faux_2

Certainly doesn't seem like it.

QuackQuackOops

Of course it is.
Why do you think it isnt?

You have the choice of using it or not using it.

faux_2

QuackQuackOops wrote: »

Of course it is.
Why do you think it isnt?

You have the choice of using it or not using it.

Is it though, and if so it's not very moral. There are countless posts online of People asking the same question all very frustrated at such a long hold on their money. Common sense would say that they are doing it for interest, after taking a cut of the transaction fee and their wrong conversion rate. Nothing to do with seller or buyer protection.

As to the rather dull "You have the choice of using it or not using it", well if you want to sell on Ebay you have no choice but to offer it, and for buying it is the most popular option. Therefore mre should be done to see if it is fair, to question not just accept.

QuackQuackOops

faux wrote: »

Is it though, and if so it's not very moral. There are countless posts online of People asking the same question all very frustrated at such a long hold on their money. Common sense would say that they are doing it for interest, after taking a cut of the transaction fee and their wrong conversion rate. Nothing to do with seller or buyer protection.

As to the rather dull "You have the choice of using it or not using it", well if you want to sell on Ebay you have no choice but to offer it, and for buying it is the most popular option. Therefore mre should be done to see if it is fair, to question not just accept.

There are countless people online that complain about a whole host of things. It doesnt mean that they are all unfair or immoral.

Paypal offer you a service and you choose to use it...the same with Ebay and you sign up to their T&C's when you start on both.
If Paypal hold money for 21 days from new sellers I can appreciate that it may be annoying but it also protects a buyers money without leaving Paypal liable for the bill.

Its like anything that is offered to people.....eventually all good things become abused by some individuals and once the abuse starts, others follow until such time that the service offered has to change or amend its rules.

Paypal have not always held money for 21 days for new sellers. The fact they feel they need to now should be blamed on the dishonest people who forced that course of action in the first place.

Anyone who doesnt like their money being held by Paypal has the absolute choice to sell elsewhere.

RFW

They don't earn interest on it and when they do (in the US) they give the interest back or donate it to charity when it isn't claimed.

The 21 days is a maximum and it is mostly used on high risk cases. They do communicate badly with those affected unfortunately and that's where the problems arise.

As far as I know there are other credit card handlers that do similar things, just that Ebay and Paypal are more prevalent.

I can't see how it is either illegal or immoral, a pain if you're affected and honest but nothing more than that.

faux_2

RFW wrote: »

The 21 days is a maximum and it is mostly used on high risk cases. They do communicate badly with those affected unfortunately and that's where the problems arise.
t.

It's everyone they class as a new seller, not just high risk cases.

soolin

faux wrote: »

It's everyone they class as a new seller, not just high risk cases.

Nope, not everyone seems to have the hold. I set up an account for someone recently who bought about 12 things and then immediately started selling. She was limited to 10 items a month (still is actually) but has never had a single payment held- despite being warned this 'might' happen.

Crowqueen

The best test of whether something is legal or not is to bring a case - then see what the judge says.

That may be time-consuming and expensive, but at least you will have your answer one way or another as to the legality of it.

What you are really asking is 'is it fair?' and the answer is 'yes, because Paypal have other things to consider, such as the buyer and themselves'. Sellers are just one part of the selling process - and have their own responsibilities.

I believe other sites that have 'e-wallet' systems also hold money until the item is notified as dispatched, or pay out once every two weeks/month/whatever. With Paypal you are lucky that not every payment is usually held, and that you have the money before the item is sent out - which obviously creates somewhat of a risk for both buyer and Paypal when the seller does a bunk with the cash without sending out what is paid for.

What people don't seem to get is eBay and Paypal are actually quite generous with what they do. They allow sellers to handle the money in a semi-liquid state before the item is sent. They allow sellers to set their own postage costs (at a sometimes more generous rate than Amazon, sometimes not, and certainly more generous than the free delivery enforced by Play) and dispatch times (the mandatory dispatch time for Amazon for marketplace sellers is two days; I know some lead times on their own items are longer but then they don't charge the credit card until they dispatch: I signed up over a year in advance for a pre-order). So I don't see why we don't get all the 'Is Amazon's payment policy legal?' threads popping up.

So if Amazon can hold money until an item is shipped, or for two weeks, or whatever, and they have never been formally challenged and had to back down - then Paypal can do likewise.

Oliver14

faux wrote: »

Is it though, and if so it's not very moral. There are countless posts online of People asking the same question all very frustrated at such a long hold on their money. Common sense would say that they are doing it for interest, after taking a cut of the transaction fee and their wrong conversion rate. Nothing to do with seller or buyer protection.

As to the rather dull "You have the choice of using it or not using it", well if you want to sell on Ebay you have no choice but to offer it, and for buying it is the most popular option. Therefore mre should be done to see if it is fair, to question not just accept.

You do have a choice not to sell on ebay. Though if you go to other places you'll find they are more strict Amazon hold funds and make ebay and paypal look like a bunch of pink fluffy bunnies with their rules

If you send your goods quickly it's not a 21 day hold also once you've sold a few items it goes anyway. Why are you just coming up with this the hold has been in place for at least 2 years actuallyprobably 3. Just because a vocal minority are complaining does not mean everyone is.

By bringing in the 21 day hold Paypal actually increased protection for sellers and buyers so if they got rid of it (which they wont) they would remove that extra protection.

You can pleep and moan all you like it wont change the fact it's in place. I'd worry about things you can influence

RFW

The fact that Ebay is essentially a free for anyone to sell on makes it more prone to accusations of unfairness. Paypal could do away with the 21 day hold if they made it more difficult to have an account that accepted payments, ie credit check sellers and vet them for other factors too, like credit card companies already do for merchants.

So it's either all encompassing with restrictions or totally restrictive.

Crowqueen

Good point, RFW.

I think people get a little bit insular about eBay as well. They expect the rules to be totally different 'because it's eBay and I'm a full time mum and...'

Part of this is the image eBay put out when it first got going of a co-operative community rather than a serious business platform. Partly it's the generalist nature of the site - anyone can sell anything. Also, partly it's the people who sell there - many are consumers and do not realise the responsibilities and commercial logic that necessarily dictate what eBay can and can't do.

This is why people are so attached to buyer feedback despite it's patent absurdities, and sellers want to have the right to neg - because they forget that in real selling, even through things like small ads and the shop window, you can't tell one person from another until they make a run for it with the goods or fail to show.

It is probably too late to drastically change the image of the site, but sometimes I wonder what people really expect to be allowed to do.