Impractical Expectations by employer

Obvious_AE

[deleted]

And finally, if nobody here knows the answer, does anybody know a good Employment Law, Equality, or Carers forum to ask on?

Emmzi

1. check your contract, pointless discussing it if you can't be bothered to find out what you signed up for
2. flexible working is for people in your position, check it out on directgov.

Maxjessdru

Think you need to clarify this a little so that people can help more.

You need to check your contract - it is likely to have a mobility clause in it which may cause problems.

Are your employers aware that you have caring responsibilities?

You say some of the travelling will be for courses - are they essential to your job? It may be that your employer does not have a lot of choice in where the training is held.

There was a case a couple of years ago that went to the European Courts where a secretary at a legal firm won because her son was disabled and it was ruled that she would be covered under discrimination law - sorry can't remember all the details but sure someone with more knowledge than me can answer that!

Obvious_AE

My copy of the contract is at work, I cannot check until tomorrow. (It's not that I can't be bothered) There is no logical reason why my job would have a mobility clause but I understand the importance of clarifying that.

[deleted]

marybelle01

A mobility clause is about relocating your workplace - not about occasional meetings and/or training in other locations. So it isn't relevant at all. If your job requires occasional travel for specific events to other locations then it is not an unreasonable request for the employer to make. If you cannot do this, then you would need to explain to your employer and ask for reasonable adjustments / flexible working arrangements to allow for your caring responsibilities. The question then becomes "what is reasonable", and if your presence is required at these meetings / training sessions and you cannot go, this may then become a question of your capacity to do the job that you are employed to do. But any starting point has to be whether this is negotiatable and talking to your employer, but I believe it is going to have to come down to negotiation. Your employer expects the job to be done, and they aren't going to organise everything around one persons requirements, so if you can't be flexible too, it is entirely likely that they will be considering options that involve your not being in their employment in the future. So you need to be careful - being a carer isn't job protection.

PS - there's a lawyer on this forum who might be able to do the law side of it
http://www.redundancyforum.co.uk/

gibson123

have you explored sorted this informally or are you just gathering "ammunition" so you can tackle this. The problem with going in all guns blazing is that you could escalate the situation needlessly and before you know it you are in a grievance situation.

I would simply ask to see my line-manager explain your concerns and ask that they take your situation into account. Say you are willing to take on training as long as it does not impact on your out of office time. Ask them to consider allowing you to do the training distance or e-learning if appropriate and ask if you can conference call into any meeting away from home. These are reasonable compromises, often if the employer sees that you cannot rather than will not then they are more reasonable.

Emmzi

Obvious_AE wrote: »

I didn't think that I needed flexible working arrangements because I can work the hours that they require.

That's an incorrect assumption. Flexible working covers eg working at home too, so location as well as hours are covered.

"'Flexible working' is a phrase that describes any working pattern adapted to suit your needs."

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Flexibleworking/DG_10029491

Obvious_AE

marybelle01 wrote: »

The question then becomes "what is reasonable", and if your presence is required at these meetings / training sessions and you cannot go, this may then become a question of your capacity to do the job that you are employed to do.

I'm currently only in this role temporarily but there is a chance it could be offered permanently. It sounds as if I need to find out whether the job requires me to attend meetings/training away from home, and whether this is a fundamental requirement of the job. (I don't object so much to the training element!)

I won't be going in 'all guns blazing' because I'd like to be offered the job - but I also don't want to give them the impression that this is not a problem for me, because it is.

I've read on various Equality/Carers information pages that it could be considered discrimination if they don't consider me for the job because of my caring responsibilities (considering these fall outside normal working hours); and that imposing impractical expectations upon me (such as travelling outside normal working hours) could be construed as harassment. Hence why I was asking for a legal interpretation, rather than a business-driven one.

Googlewhacker

Obvious_AE wrote: »

I'm currently only in this role temporarily but there is a chance it could be offered permanently. It sounds as if I need to find out whether the job requires me to attend meetings/training away from home, and whether this is a fundamental requirement of the job. (I don't object so much to the training element!)

I won't be going in 'all guns blazing' because I'd like to be offered the job - but I also don't want to give them the impression that this is not a problem for me, because it is.

I've read on various Equality/Carers information pages that it could be considered discrimination if they don't consider me for the job because of my caring responsibilities (considering these fall outside normal working hours); and that imposing impractical expectations upon me (such as travelling outside normal working hours) could be construed as harassment. Hence why I was asking for a legal interpretation, rather than a business-driven one.

but again it comes down to what is reasonable, if its a course 4 or 5 times a year then the company expecting you to go there would be reasonable IMO. If it was weekly then reasonableness becomes doubtful because if its that regular then it probably could be moved to your main site.

System

Obvious_AE wrote: »

I've read on various Equality/Carers information pages that it could be considered discrimination if they don't consider me for the job because of my caring responsibilities (considering these fall outside normal working hours);

However if those are requirements of the job and there is no way around them (E.G. you are only one person out of 20 on a course and it needs to be face to face /classroom environment or you have to attend a meeting at the other end of the country on site) then the employer must consider your continuance in that role on the basis of capability. You can not hide behind Equality in all situations

Obvious_AE

marybelle01 wrote: »

PS - there's a lawyer on this forum who might be able to do the law side of it

I've found who you mean Thank you everybody.