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Warning signs needed BEFORE entering carpark?

edited 29 February 2012 at 3:23PM in Parking tickets, fines & parking
7 replies 889 views
carajpcarajp Forumite
20 Posts
edited 29 February 2012 at 3:23PM in Parking tickets, fines & parking
Hi!

I got a ticket on Friday from a private parking company. The area in question is behind an office block, part of a whole city "square" of office blocks and the church (where I was bound), with parking spaces behind. Some are council parking, some are private parking and some no-one has ever worked out who the spaces belong to.

I parked in a bay of 4 in a long thin car park. There was no warning sign at the entrance. The first warning sign was at the entrance to the next bay of 4 down. This was some distance (60-80ft?) from where I was parked. I really thought that if they owned the bay where I parked, they would have marked it so that these were some of the "orphan" bays in the area.

I have rejected the charge (those words) on the basis there was no warning sign placed before the bay I'd parked in. Am I in the clear? I took photos to prove the situation and enclosed copies in my letter of rejection. (I wish I'd remembered MSE first!!)

The company is UKPC. No idea if that makes a difference!

Thanks

Cara

Replies

  • edited 29 February 2012 at 3:42PM
    give_them_FAgive_them_FA
    3K Posts
    edited 29 February 2012 at 3:42PM
    Don't waste your time arguing the case. You no more need a reason to reject their pathetic charge, than they will need a reason to reject your appeal. Which they will, guaranteed.

    Fortunately, since the charge has no validity in law and is not enforceable, you will be able to trump their rejection with yours.

    You have the final say, because you will not pay and you will ignore everything they write to you from here on in.

    There is nothing they can do about it, despite the lying assertions to the contrary that you may (sorry, will) receive over the next few weeks. Get a preview by looking at their letter chain in the sticky at the top of the forum index.

    Finally, they will concur with your judgment and will cut their losses and disappear.

    No it doesn't make any difference that it's UKPC, all these people are as pathetic as each other. I think I have put the finger up at 6 UKPC toilet paper chains.
  • peter_the_piperpeter_the_piper Forumite
    30.2K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Forumite
    cpicking wrote: »
    Hi!

    I got a ticket on Friday from a private parking company. The area in question is behind an office block, part of a whole city "square" of office blocks and the church (where I was bound), with parking spaces behind. Some are council parking, some are private parking and some no-one has ever worked out who the spaces belong to.

    I parked in a bay of 4 in a long thin car park. There was no warning sign at the entrance. The first warning sign was at the entrance to the next bay of 4 down. This was some distance (60-80ft?) from where I was parked. I really thought that if they owned the bay where I parked, they would have marked it so that these were some of the "orphan" bays in the area.

    I have rejected the charge (those words) on the basis there was no warning sign placed before the bay I'd parked in. Am I in the clear? I took photos to prove the situation and enclosed copies in my letter of rejection. (I wish I'd remembered MSE first!!)

    The company is UKPC. No idea if that makes a difference!

    Thanks

    Cara
    First and most important, edit your post to obscure who the driver was, use "the car was parked"etc instead.
    Second its ok to just ignore them but do not throw the paperwork away, ukpc have been known to consider court where the poster has let slip who was driving (did'nt win though).
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
  • ...and you can also use their paperwork to launch a claim for harassment if you like...
  • trisontanatrisontana Forumite
    9.5K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Forumite
    This from the BPA code of practice:-

    B4.2 Signs must show, in plain and intelligible language, all the
    terms on which an operator may wish to rely. Signs must
    be placed at the entrance to the site, and there must be
    enough signs placed in other locations throughout the site

    so that drivers are given the chance to be aware of the risk
    involved at the time of parking or leaving the vehicle. They
    must include the following information:
    a that the land is private property and is managed by the
    operator
    b that if a vehicle is parked without authorisation, or has
    breached any parking conditions that apply, parking
    control and enforcement action may take place at any
    time or during the hours shown
    c the types of parking control that may be used − for
    example, immobilisation, removal, the issue of a parking
    ticket, automatic number plate recognition technology
    d the standard fees for parking payable for each day or
    part-day
    e the parking charges that will apply if the driver is in
    breach of their parking contract
    f any particular terms or conditions that are unusual and
    a driver should be aware of
    g information about whether there are any concessions
    for disabled persons (blue) badge holders
    h that if a parking ticket is not paid, vehicle keeper details
    will be requested from the DVLA
    i the registered company name of the operator and,
    if the operator is using a trading name other than its
    registered company name, a geographical address
    where documents can be served
    j a landline number for general enquiries. Nongeographic
    numbers such as those starting 0845 and
    0870 are acceptable but premium-rate numbers such
    as those starting 09 are not recommended.
    Your signs must be at least 450mm x 450mm in size.
    To help motorists understand signs it is strongly advised
    that you use pictograms or symbols, for example images
    of a wheel clamp, removal truck, camera and so on.
    You may also have to give other information on signs and
    notices under the companies and consumer legislation. This
    will depend on things such as the relationship between the
    operator and the landowner.



    TCP are in breach of this code in several of the car-parks they manage for ASDA. This is because the only signs in place are positioned next to the P&D machines, there are none at the entrance. You only see those after you have parked and have approached the machine. Furthermore the signs say "for full terms and conditions please apply to Town and City Parking". So how can you agree to those T&Cs if you are not in full possession of the facts?
    What part of "A whop bop-a-lu a whop bam boo" don't you understand?
  • Thank you for all the feedback. It's very helpful. I promise not to give them a penny. :)

    Bit late to edit my post - I wrote to them rejecting the charge and, de facto, ackowledged that I was driving.

    Thanks again

    Cara
  • Understood. Don't falter then you get the threats to kidnap your cat and bulldoze your house if you don't pay, Cara....
  • The_Slithy_ToveThe_Slithy_Tove Forumite
    4K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts
    Forumite
    Leaving aside the fact that the signs are as meaningless as the invoices which follow, signs at the entrance to such car parks aren't all that much help anyway.
    1. It's not as if you are committed to parking once you've entered (unlike with barrier systems, where you do need to be able to see the Ts&Cs and bail out before committing to paying money)>
    2. Even when they are in place, I never see them anyway. It's when entering a car park that you tend to be mostly looking at where you are going, and how to navigate round it, not looking for signs. I have often observed later that a sign was actually placed at the entrance, but I never saw it at the time.
    Anyway, as I said, it's all just so much hogwash and easily ignored.
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