Do Greek voters think they can just go on spending more than they earn forever?

ILW

Really2 wrote: »

Correct, that is called democracy if it was just him it would be a dictatorship.

He needs 151 votes to pass any legislation out of 300 = Democracy.

A very loose definition of democracy, but probably about as good as can be practically expected.

julieq

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Almost everything I read, disagrees with your stance.

Whether that be the telegraph, the guardian, or the BBC.

Sorry Graham, which bit of my "stance" do your three esteemed sources disagree with me on? The fact that the EU are not allowing Greece to negotiate better terms but are threatening to hang Greece up to dry if this is not settled? The idea that the Greek electorate have persuaded themselves that austerity is not needed and they can sit in the sun and evade tax while the French and Germans cover their debts? Or that referendums are an unusual part of democracy (which is why we elect executive governments)?

Because I've looked, and I don't see anything remotely controversial in any of the three pillars of my "stance".

While we're here, what do you make of the democratic decision by Unison to strike over increased public sector pension provisions paid for by someone else? Any parallels there? What do you think?

Really2

jamespmg44 wrote: »

Referendum scrapped according to Sky News.

Transitional government and early elections by the look of it.

Really2

ILW wrote: »

A very loose definition of democracy, but probably about as good as can be practically expected.

Indeed, but it is how most "democratic" governments losely pass legislation.
It is not the leader that passes them it is the vote in the house of all members (who can be @ssed to attend).

Mr_Mumble

Mighty quick cave-in from the Greeks after the threat of credit withdrawal. Debt addicts need their fix.

IMF/France/Germany/EU:



Greece:



(Confused? Go buy, borrow or rent The Wire. Greatest telly ever).

jamespmg44

Really2 wrote: »

Transitional government and early elections by the look of it.

Can't see them surviving the vote of no confidence tomorrow at this rate so early elections look likely.

jamespmg44

Mr_Mumble wrote: »

Mighty quick cave-in from the Greeks after the threat of credit withdrawal. Debt addicts need their fix.

IMF/France/Germany/EU:



Greece:



(Confused? Go buy, borrow or rent The Wire. Greatest telly ever).

The USA



And China

pqrdef

The significant point about the eurozone deal last week was that it contained nothing to help Greece (or anybody else) rebuild their shattered economy and credit. It was all about saving France and Germany from the consequences of their past mistakes in managing the euro. Greece is just the first in the queue of countries that have involunteered to be hung out to dry for this purpose.

So what we can be sure of is that Merkel and Sarkozy are bluffing. They aren't interested in helping Greece, but they will do whatever they have to do to save themselves. And the simplest and cheapest thing they have to do is not let Greece default.

At some point this may go to the line, like the American mini-fracas. Money today or default tomorrow. Will the troika say "no money" and then sleep at night knowing that all hell will be let loose in the morning? Or will they find themselves a fig-leaf? They're politicians - European politicians. If necessary to save face, they could even slip a few billion under the counter.

Only trouble is, the Greeks are figuring this out. Which is why Merkel and Sarkozy are looking desperate. If your bluff might be called, bluff harder and louder and more aggressively.

jamespmg44

pqrdef wrote: »

The significant point about the eurozone deal last week was that it contained nothing to help Greece (or anybody else) rebuild their shattered economy and credit. It was all about saving France and Germany from the consequences of their past mistakes in managing the euro. Greece is just the first in the queue of countries that have involunteered to be hung out to dry for this purpose.

So what we can be sure of is that Merkel and Sarkozy are bluffing. They aren't interested in helping Greece, but they will do whatever they have to do to save themselves. And the simplest and cheapest thing they have to do is not let Greece default.

At some point this may go to the line, like the American mini-fracas. Money today or default tomorrow. Will the troika say "no money" and then sleep at night knowing that all hell will be let loose in the morning? Or will they find themselves a fig-leaf? They're politicians - European politicians. If necessary to save face, they could even slip a few billion under the counter.

Only trouble is, the Greeks are figuring this out. Which is why Merkel and Sarkozy are looking desperate. If your bluff might be called, bluff harder and louder and more aggressively.

To be fair to the Germans, why should they do anything for the good of the Greeks?

I'd be pretty peeved off if Cameron and co gave a huge amount of money to bail out !!!!less southern european states who lived on the never never.

sabretoothtigger

Nov. 3, 2011, 11:03 a.m. EDT
Greek premier abandons referendum plan: AP



LONDON (MarketWatch) -- The Greek prime minister has abandoned plans to hold a referendum on the bailout package for Greece agreed last week, the Associated Press reported, citing two officials close to the Greek premier. Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou gave up plans for the referendum after the country's main opposition party said it would back the bailout.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/greek-premier-abandons-referendum-plan-ap-2011-11-03?siteid=bnbh