ESA claimants next Monday - Heads Up !

cit_k

A_Flock_Of_Sheep wrote: »

I am disabled and have read these descriptors. I would score way more than 15 points. According to the ESA scores I should be technically unfit for work.

This is so laughable because I actually work.

The descriptors, and what actually happens in the medical assessment are two seperate beasts.

They dont ask you those questions, they make the answers up themselves (or rather the softare does), and their 'opinion' often over-rules what you state as fact, and other medical evidence.

The word of a nurse operating a bit of software, can over-ride you, your GP, your consultant, etc.

Richie-from-the-Boro

Cpt.Scarlet wrote: »

See http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/228/made/data.pdf

It's the seven under the Mental, cognitive and intellectual function assessment heading

Ta Muchly !

Richie-from-the-Boro

rogerblack wrote: »

The problem with this approach is that there isn't a good equivalence between 'can't get better', and 'can work'.

Consider someone who is currently eligable for the support group - they are well educated, did not happen to drive. They get epilepsy, and have a fit every 5 days or so, which does not affect them for more than a few minutes at a time, and they get plenty of warning before attacks. For the sake of argument - say this will never get better.

And then consider someone who can just about learn to use a washing machine, if shown several times, and can manage only simple language.

They are in the work-related group.

A more sane system of employment and support allowance would have the second person treated less harshly than the first, as their needs are far higher, and their ability to work is far lower.

The current system is broken.
Firstly as there is a disconnect between ESA and JSA.
You can be - on the same unargued facts - not entitled to ESA, yet not entitled to JSA.

Secondly, the massive problem that the ESA tests do not actually test employability.
The recent update to the descriptors is problematic in that it removed some of the low-scoring descriptors, which make people with multiple disabilities who are not realistically employable not qualify.

But the whole idea of a tick-box employability assesment has real problems.

The only reasonably sane approach would take more actual time with the claimant.
Firstly - some sort of quick screening which picks out the clearly unemployable, and those that should not have to work on compassionate grounds (death expected within 6 months, ...).

Then something akin to the work program, where people are assessed over a longer period, and given help with making themselves more employable, or if this is found not to be possible, moved back into the support group.

Combine this with significantly relaxing the 'permitted work' rules, and allowing people on ESA (or whatever replaces it) to work as their condition permits, and you might have something a lot fairer.

Its not really about employability is it ?, its about saving the treasury £7 Billion by 2015 which will they have calculated come from time limiting ESA to 12 months. The galloping rush to get everyone off contribution based IB and onto ESA will mean those claimants days are numbered - numbered to a precise and predictable end point - 365 days exactly. That's why they don't test for employability, that's why there are disconnects, that's why the easy to hit points were removed.

Working with their own figures of the :

- 900,00 affected
- 30% will not have their payments changed because IRESA & CESA will be at the same rate
- 30% will qualify for some IRESA but less than CESA
- 40% will get nothing

So after the April 2012 point, 400,000 [ish] people will have jumped through the hoop into the new WCA .. .. they will have paid National Insurance Contributions during their work life .. .. but even that group that worked & paid will get no state help if they become work incapacitated.

saving_pennies

The ESA change confuses me so bear with me if this is a naive question:

What if someone applies for ESA and the medical says they are fit for work but they believe they are not as does their GP, so the person appeals the decision. Does the person get a basic level of ESA whilst the appeal is happening? And if they win the appeal and get ESA, would the 12 month include the period between first applying and winning the appeal?

rogerblack

saving_pennies wrote: »

The ESA change confuses me so bear with me if this is a naive question:

What if someone applies for ESA and the medical says they are fit for work but they believe they are not as does their GP, so the person appeals the decision. Does the person get a basic level of ESA whilst the appeal is happening? And if they win the appeal and get ESA, would the 12 month include the period between first applying and winning the appeal?

The 12 months applies from the date of claim.
So, 12 months after the date of claim, if you're in the work-related group, and on contributory, not income based ESA, your ESA goes away. (apart from NI credits).
Appeals are separate. The person appealing gets (unless the reason for their disqualification was for missing a medical or some other reasons) paid ESA assessment rate for the period of the appeal, and have to send in doctors notes for this period.
Once the appeal is complete, you get paid the support group or work-related group payment over the period back to the 13th week from the start of the claim.

And yes, if this took 12 months, you'd get a massive backpayment, and nothing more, if you're placed in the work-related group, and are on contributory ESA.

saving_pennies

Thanks for clarifying that Roger.

I'm in process of transferring to ESA, I'm sure I'll get ESA - I'm hoping I won't have to appeal. I'm not sure which group they will put me in or whether it will be contribution based on income related. I currently get IS with disability premiums and DLA - high rate care and high rate mobility, and have no savings at all.

holistic_witch

I'm still bit confused but nothing new there then!!! i was in group i think had to go job centre have regular interviews all of which waste of time had to fill out medical form yet again not heard last two times as my conditions still the same well worse but hey ho. Well this am (sat) received letter to say i'm in the support group but dated till nov this year my dla gets renewed next nov as they keep giving me two years.
The confusion is what does that mean it will stop in nov or I'll have to go medical again only filled out form end may they seem to be doing every 6 mths any advice welcome, its for contribution i think dont think income based as never filled anything out about money etc

sorry for being bit thick but at the moment things arent adding up in my head unless explained simply

thanks in advance

Ali

seven-day-weekend

I know someone who has been unable to work for over twenty years. She has epilepsy and has periodic fits. More seriously, she has severe depression which can leave her hospitalised for months (she has just been discharged from hospital after six weeks and is still having home carers).

This person has been claiming IB.

When she is put onto CB-ESA, if she is put in the WRAG, then because her husband has a highly paid job, then she will lose her Benefit after twelve months. She still will have the same conditions she had before. She will still be unable to work.

That's not right, is it?

I hope she is put into the support group so that she will not lose her bit of independence (for which she has paid the required NI).

sunnyone

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I know someone who has been unable to work for over twenty years. She has epilepsy and has periodic fits. More seriously, she has severe depression which can leave her hospitalised for months (she has just been discharged from hospital after six weeks and is still having home carers).

This person has been claiming IB.

When she is put onto CB-ESA, if she is put in the WRAG, then because her husband has a highly paid job, then she will lose her Benefit after twelve months. She still will have the same conditions she had before. She will still be unable to work.

That's not right, is it?

I hope she is put into the support group so that she will not lose her bit of independence (for which she has paid the required NI).

The change is retrospective so she wont have 12 months on ESA but will lose her money straight away if she is placed into the WRAG and thats very wrong, very, very wrong as we have paid our dues, people who havnt paid their dues are alright as usual.

seven-day-weekend

Ah right, even worse than I thought then.