Stolen vehicle - insurance offer 'limited indemnity'?

paulsvan

Back in May we had our beloved VW camper stolen from near the home.

It was a unique vehicle as I had recently painted it, fitted a camping interior and modified the mechanicals to upgrade the rare 'Syncro' 4wd system.

I bought the van back in January, initially insuring it with Footman James for £2000 when they inquired on its value. Since then the work I had carried out had improved the vans spec and condition hugely and experts/owners of these vans valued it around £5000 just before it was stolen. I was near to finishing the work and declaring everything when it was taken.

Sadly many of these vehicles seem to be stolen at the moment - either to be broken for parts or shipped abroad.

Anyway, to cut a long story short I put in a theft claim, submitted my details and waited. It was being halded by 'Helphire'. Eventually RSA (Royal Sun Alliance, the underwriters of my policy) contacted me to settle my claim. Last week I had a conversation where their agent said they wanted to settle and that the maximum settlement would be £2000.

The reason I was given was that Footman James specified my vehicle (which is on a multi-vehicle policy, with no agreed value) had my van on a 'limited indemnity policy' something I have never heard of. In fact when I search the internet I can find no mention of one. The RSA agent suggested I would have been told I was signing up to this 'limited indemnity' when I took out my policy.

The policy was opened over the phone and I know I would not have agreed to such a clause as I fully intended to modify/improve the van and hence raise its resale value. I never heard the term 'limited indemnity' during my conversations with Footman James and would never have agreed to those terms. RSA told me Footman James would have phone logs of my conversations but I thought I would see if anyone had experienced this before I contacted them.

I am now totally confused regarding where I stand. The theft of our family vehicle has been heartbreaking enough. We had so many plans for holidays and VW shows and the season has been missed due to the loss of it. My wife has been depressed as she made the upholstery and I have been angry as I spent hours converting it by hand.

Now I face losing out financially as well

I have photos/reciepts of the work carried out on our van and can provide expert valuations from the VW club that caters specifically for them. The thing is - we don't expect to make money from the loss of the work i carried out - we know that insurance doesn't cover such things. But having watched Ebay and other places that sell similar vehicles (in the hope ours might turn up online).

I have 3 pages of listings and cannot buy a basic, empty van in similar condition to the original spec when we purchased it for less than £4000. It's a rare vehicle and they seem to have appreciated in value - hence why unscrupulous ppl are stealing them.

Can anyone advise on my legal position?

What is 'limited indemnity'?

Do I need to be contesting the 'limited indemnity' claim and asking for a proper and fair market value to be offered?

Please help.

Paul - the saddened VW owner.

InsideInsurance

First of all, what have your broker said when you have gone back to them over the "limited indemnity" point from RSA?

If there was no agreed value for the vehicle then it would be valued at market value and that would be based on the original specification for the vehicle plus any modifications that had been declared on the policy. Were the modifications you had made declared to the broker?

paulsvan

I haven't yet approached the broker as I didn't understand the term 'limited indemnity'. Thought I would ask here so I knew what they were talking about before I engaged into further negotiation.

The brokers were aware I was carrying out a 'motorcaravan' conversion but the modifications were not complete and were not at the time declared.

I wholly expect them to discount the modifications in a settlement as a result.

What I do need is a fair current market value on the original 'standard' vehicle.

InsideInsurance

Your best off speaking to your broker who will understand your policy (and have access to its wording) and ultimately is the person you've paid to advise you.

mikey72

paulsvan wrote: »

I bought the van back in January, initially insuring it with Footman James for £2000 when they inquired on its value.

We had an agreed value policy with Footman James.
If it's a classic policy, they're not the same as normal ones.

We declared the value of ours, and sent pictures for them to have a look at and agree to. It wasn't the purchase price, but higher, as it would cost more to buy another similar spec. (We declared the purchase price too)
If you said it was worth £2000 for example, that's what you would normally expect them to pay out.

If you are converting it, you would normally increase the value as you modify it, and send off more pictures to confirm the work.

The other issue is if it's near the home, is it at the address you declared it's being kept at, or was it in a different location while you worked on it?

paulsvan

mikey72 wrote: »

We had an agreed value policy with Footman James.
If it's a classic policy, they're not the same as normal ones.

We declared the value of ours, and sent pictures for them to have a look at and agree to. It wasn't the purchase price, but higher, as it would cost more to buy another similar spec. (We declared the purchase price too)
If you said it was worth £2000 for example, that's what you would normally expect them to pay out.

If you are converting it, you would normally increase the value as you modify it, and send off more pictures to confirm the work.

The other issue is if it's near the home, is it at the address you declared it's being kept at, or was it in a different location while you worked on it?

First of all, yes! Its a FJ Classic policy - though its also part of a Multicar policy?

Again, I was about to make a declaration on completion of the interior but it was stolen before I had done so.

There was no 'agreed' value on the van.

The van was always kept at home - even while I worked on it and was stolen from here too so no issues there.

My confusion is the 'agreed market value'. If I bought it in January and didn't agree a market value (surely thats not for me to decide anyway) - only a purchase price of £2000 and the value of these vehicles has risen then it's not for me to recalculate during the term of my policy?

ILW

The price of the policy would have been based on the value you gave them (ie £2000). If the value increases it is up to you to tell them so they can adjust the premium accordingly. It does appear that you agreed the £2000 value when taking out the policy.

mikey72

The Footman James clasic policy we had was a single car, so I can only answer on how that worked for us.

When we took it out initially, we received the insurance pack with a form to fill out, provide photos etc, or for high value cars obtain a professional club valuation.
Initially the schedule stated all the figures we gave them, but limited the agreed value to the market value of the car (or similar words).

So we polished the car up, took the photos, listed the repairs we had done since we bought it, and stated the value to be agreed at 50% more than we paid for it a few months earlier.
FJ agreed to our valuation, and sent back a new schedule with the agreed value on it.

Have a read of yours, and maybe it states market value still if you didn't do this.

mikey72

paulsvan wrote: »

.............. market value (surely thats not for me to decide anyway).............

definitely for you to decide, otherwise they'll be paying out for a 25 year old ex delivery van, not a meticulously restored classic.

(webuyanycar valued ours at less than £100, but it's insured on an agreed value for a four figure sum)

paulsvan

FJ are now stating that the 'purchase price' is now their defined 'declared' value. I have explained the difference between current market value and the offer.

They are now looking at retrieving the original phone call where I added the van to our policy. This is to determine whether I was properly informed on the process of declaration and how it would affect a future claim.

I'm inclined to believe I have been sold the additional cover as part of my Multicar policy and in fact it has been added on a classic policy. At no time was I made aware that any settlement would be limited to the 'purchase price' so as far as I am concerned that leaves us with current market value.

My paperwork states '21: Agreed Value: £ Not Applicable' and a 'Declared Value £2000' but as a non-expert that's not something I would have stated over the phone.

With our last van - were were insured on a specialist/classic policy and when it was stolen (later recovered, thankfully!) there was no quibble over the value of the vehicle regardless of initial declared value. The settlement was based upon condition at the time of loss and current market value.

Somehow though I feel I will soon be joining the ranks of those screwed over by yet another insurer ;-/