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What do people think of this....thoughts, opinions please..

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Comments

  • i quite agree.
    whilst i might agree with diggin'out in principle, the fact is that mr OP asked for advice and thoughts.
    Travelmans thoughts were that he should, no, COULD try a particular way that he happens to know about because it worked for him/someone very close to him.
    Others thoughts are different, I am sure mr OP will take everyones thoughts and advice on board, and hopefully will seek more professional, one to one advice before proceeding?
    Talon "Ace" Karrde
    the more i see, the more i know, the more i know, the less i understand
  • peterbaker wrote:
    I knew someone once - I think I even called him "friend". He took his bank and other creditors for around £50,000 about 10 years ago. Laughed about it he did. Still drove round in a Merc with a personal number. Suggested there was a lot of it about even then!

    And then I shared rooms with a guy who was self-employed like a lot of IT people were a few years back and ran up about £40,000 of Inland Revenue debt. He also laughed about how he got his accountant to write a sob story and within a very short while got the whole debt written off. Him with his huge great 4WD parked outside next to my two bob Citroen.

    These two anecdotes go to illustrate a rather startling fact that emerged in the press recently, to the effect that the profile of "typical" bankrupts has changed of late.

    Bankrupts used to be mainly people who'd lost their job, or who'd borrowed to fund a business which wasn't working, or who had suffered some serious financial reverse or the other. As a result of that reverse, they became unable to service their debts, and unlikely ever to be able to do so, and sought refuge in bankruptcy.

    The typical bankrupt today, on the other hand, is increasingly someone who has a steady job and a reasonable income, and whose debts consist entirely of feckless overspending on a string of credit cards.

    In other words, they've never actually suffered a major economic hit. They've just shopped and shopped and shopped without paying for anything. Once one credit card was maxed, they applied for another, and another, and another, and carried on spending. At the point where they couldn't meet even the minimum payments, they declared themselves bankrupt and presumably set about wiping the slate clean, so they can go off and do it all again.

    The only bankrupts or would-be bankrupts I've personally encountered are those who post to sites like this, and I have to say that in my limited experience most do indeed resemble the above profile. They haven't been unfortunate, nor have they tried to make a go of something and genuinely found it too tough (which I can respect). They've just p1ssed a load of money away and now they want off the hook.

    I don't get the impression the OP here has really faced up to this, or that he has truly committed to rethink the way he lives his life. He seems determined, in fact, to change his life as little as possible. Until that changes, giving him advice is likely to be as helpful to him as giving him more credit. Sorry to be blunt, but there are people here whose attitude and circumstances make them a lot more deserving of support and advice.
  • Some very desperate people will post here about Bankruptcy. For some of them, this will be their best way out.

    Some are more deserving than others, however. I don't see anyone on these boards lecturing people who have genuinely got into difficulty through little or not fault of their own. Someone who comes on who's well able to repay what they owe, but just doesn't really feel like doing so, is not in quite the same category. There are some people who cannot be helped.
  • Trow
    Trow Posts: 2,298 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    You know, declaring bankruptcy is not morally unacceptable of itself. If people use it as a get out clause to enable them to live a life above their means then yes, but thats not nearly always the case.

    A local example - a friend had a share in a fishing boat that sank. It was insured by and insurance company recommended by the fishing agents - which turned out to be a complete scam and no company existed. He has gone bankrupt because of it, but in truth the debt was not his 'fault' as he was to the best of his ability covered for any possible eventuality, as recommended by an agent that had over 100 fishing boats on thier books.
  • ceegee
    ceegee Posts: 856 Forumite
    Haven't got the details to hand, but I know that I read, very recently, that the government is introducing rules to stop the rapidly increasing abuse of bankruptcy laws. It is recognised (at last....and thank goodness) that some people wantonly run up massive debts without any intention of paying them of because bankruptcy will sort it all out. Meanwhile they've been living the life of Riley. Mostly seems to be youngsters, too (20s and 30s).

    I have really had to bite my tongue on this subject. I feel so strongly about financial responsibility.

    None of my ranting is aimed at the OP, it is just a general rant.

    I am also aware that it is not always self-inflicted, as in Trow's friend's case.
    :snow_grin"Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow........":snow_grin
  • DiggingOut
    DiggingOut Posts: 770 Forumite
    Some may feel bankruptcy is always immoral, but I do not. Failure to pay debts is a breaking of a promise, which is never a good thing, but sometimes it is unavoidable. If you can't keep your word, you can't keep it.

    It is a vastly different thing to intentionally decide that, even though you can, you won't.

    Trow's example is a good case of someone being bankrupt through no real fault of their own. Others are responsible for their situation, but cannot do anything else to get out of it, and most people would not find bankruptcy immoral in that case either.

    I have not once suggested that bankruptcy is immoral for those who can't pay. The OP can, he said so himself, and everyone knows it.

    Of course morality is part of the picture. Otherwise we would tell everyone that robbery is the fastest way to get out of debt. ;)

    Why do those who are suggesting that the OP quit his job and go bankrupt not want to address the following:
    DiggingOut wrote:
    3. If it is an option, it's counterproductive To encourage him to do anything else is like giving heroin to a junkie. He's recovering. Running away is detrimental. If he runs from this, he'll end up in destructive/compulsive behaviour again -- if not gambling, something else. Ask any counsellor.

    If it is ok for someone to advocate an option, why is it not ok for someone else to point out that it is immoral and personally detrimental to the OP?
    I have five stars! This doesn't mean that I know anything about any of the things I post. I could be a raving lunatic, or a brilliant genius, or just some guy on the internet. In fact, I could be all three at the same time.

    If anything I say makes sense, then do it. If not, don't. Don't blame me or my stars if you do something stupid because I suggested it. I'm responsible for my own stupidity only. You are responsible for yours.

    Why, I don't even have five stars anymore! Aren't you glad you aren't responsible for my stupidity?
  • While this thread is very interesting, I feel that it has gone way off subject.

    The OP was asking for assistance but now the thread has turned into a debate regarding the rights and wrongs of bankruptcy.

    Somebody should start a new thread on the bankruptcy issue.

    Regards

    JC
  • While this thread is very interesting, I feel that it has gone way off subject.

    The OP was asking for assistance but now the thread has turned into a debate regarding the rights and wrongs of bankruptcy.

    Somebody should start a new thread on the bankruptcy issue.

    Regards

    JC

    DiggingOut's post at 9.19 says it all really.
  • Well it has taken me quite some time to read through all the posts here - and firstly thank you to all who have posted and the useful links. I will follow them up at the weekend.

    I am old enough to hear a few of the things that have been said - and more than that perhaps need to hear them!! Yes to an extent maybe I have not taken fully on board my situation and the severity of it. I suppose I see it almost as a rent payment - my Debt payment that is. You know it is £600 that I have to pay each month and that is just the way it is - and it would be great if I could think of it like that all the time - but I can't. It does get me down when I get my letter telling me what the debt currently sits at etc.

    Yes I earn a good wage at present, and yes I suppose I could probably pay another few hundred on top of what I pay now but it is soo much more complicated than that. I feel resentful for the way all the money was thrown at us through university - and it was soo easy to get. Of course we are not mature enough to realise the true ramifications of running up £20k through uni and thinking about evenetually paying it back. I will tell you one thing - it is not that £20k that I resent paying back as it has given me some great memories and althuogh money does not buy friends through the experiences I had at uni I have formed some great friednships which I know I will have for life. It is the gambling that has hit me the hardest though and no matter what some people think of it, it is an addiction and one that I never want to go back to again - I bet you a £5 I wont ;-) - I was not thinking ohh I will just bet this and not worry about paying back - it was not just as simple as that....

    Of course bankruptcy would be great - but as mentioned I do not know if I could do this for a number of reasons already well documented. I suppose my original post was just to evoke some opinion on what others thought I should do - as others opinions are often beneficial. I have also learnt a lot about where it is easy to cut costs etc. I am going to spend the weekend looking at my outgoings and using the various tools I have been alerted to.

    So thanks to everyone - love the board and thanks for the views - keep them coming.

    Regards
    Donmonster
  • DiggingOut
    DiggingOut Posts: 770 Forumite
    Best of luck and keep us posted on how things go with you. :)
    I have five stars! This doesn't mean that I know anything about any of the things I post. I could be a raving lunatic, or a brilliant genius, or just some guy on the internet. In fact, I could be all three at the same time.

    If anything I say makes sense, then do it. If not, don't. Don't blame me or my stars if you do something stupid because I suggested it. I'm responsible for my own stupidity only. You are responsible for yours.

    Why, I don't even have five stars anymore! Aren't you glad you aren't responsible for my stupidity?
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